The Never List

pavelski wrote:Sorry Bandit, I should have been more precise.

I was referring to to "ordinary" shaped skis in the 2010 circa!
Of course rockers are available,,but these have designed tips and tails that are curved upward at both ends and are for persons who know how to ski in soft powder conditions!

There is now a "discussion" among skiers in my area about the impact of rockers on hard well groomed slopes! Some say there will be a increase of accidents since again the effective ski edge available to skier is smaller! Time will tell!

That was my point!

Rocker is now fitted to all types of ski, at all skill levels. For example, here is a 72mm waist ski from the current K2 catalogue:

http://k2skis.com/skis/men-s/velocity

Here is a different type of Rocker...
http://k2skis.com/skis/all-mountain/supersmooth

I doubt that a 72mm waist would be much good for soft powder.

I believe that the available edge for skiing is increased with Rocker, since the ski has less camber and more of the ski is in contact with the snow before any turn pressure is applied.

If you rent shagged out skis, then you'll get the performance appropriate to the rental. If there is insufficient DIN available at your local rental outlet, come and try mine. There are plenty of rental skis fitted with bindings which top out at DIN 16 in my local village ski shop. Would that DIN be more appropriate to your skill level?

Of course, my view is merely that of the punter, and should be read as such.

Bandit,
You are "modest" !

You are not just a punter ! I have followed your " ski adventures" and your house adventures in the background! No you are a very good skier!

May I suggest the following site which explains to me what the "rocker" ski is to me, http://www.evo.com/rocker-guide-what-is-rocker-and-why-does-it-matter.aspx

You will note on the illustration that both the tip and tails are raised,,unlike a traditional shaped ski!
The surface touching the flat surface is reduced!

Yes now the rockers are promoted for all sorts of terrain ( that is where the major discussion will happen this season)! Its birth was for powder skiing in + 50 cm. of snow ,,thus you could get an early float !

My point was not to get into the pros and cons of such a ski! That is up to each skier to try them and decide. My point was to comment on why I never hire ski !

Punter,,you are not Bandit!

Smart women you are!

But can we agree,,,to have different opinions ,,different points of views ?

Sorry, but I will not hire ( rent ) skis,,ever !

Have a nice skiing season.

Respectfully,
Pavel

pavelski wrote:


You will note on the illustration that both the tip and tails are raised,,unlike a traditional shaped ski!
The surface touching the flat surface is reduced!

Only when the ski is flat. Once on edge, the effective edge increases with the edge angle. So much so, that most of the shovel is engaged. This gives these skis a longer effective edge than a conventional camber ski of the same length. What has made more difference to the turning performance of these skis is the compound sidecut where a combination of small and large radius curves enables ski to carve much smaller radius turns than the average sidecut (given in the specs) would suggest. I think this is what the recent FIS changes were trying to counter in the name of safety.

Ha,,,,,Trencher

The super carver is back !

I hope you have had a great summer and getting into ski mode!

Excellent point concerning the "carving" ability of those rockers. Yes on paper that is what should happen!

Can you grant me this point?

Look at skiers in the 19-30 age group ( of course excluding you) and watch them ski ! What percentage carve a turn,,or ski from edge to edge and what percentage "swivel, rotate on bases to do "tricks" !

What I have observed in my area is that "carvers",,skiers who are technically proficient in the modern ski technique stick to shaped skis in the high performance level!

The rockers are used mostly by "freeriders",,,those younger more "off-the piste" individuals who are looking for the "virgin" snow!

Season 2012 will tell show how such skis will do in real life on the slopes!

I tested last year some of the coming rockers at the industry ski show! Yes great turns and holding power at soft well groomed runs. BUT;
-do not hold tails during the turn till the very end of turn like on a SL World Cup ski,,,,! It will NOT zing you out to next turn. Rather you will flow out of the turn with a soft tail!

- on flats ( at base, on traverse sections) be very careful

As I noted,,2012 will show us !

Have a great winter season!

Pavel

The rockers are used mostly by "freeriders",,,those younger more "off-the piste" individuals who are looking for the "virgin" snow!

No, this is old thinking. Rocker technology now exists in all ski types, and at all skiing levels. The links to 2 K2 ski models that I provided to you, are in no way off piste/advanced/freeride skis. Some skis have tip Rocker only, tails are traditional.
Do not confuse Twin Tips with Rocker, they are different.

Many ski makers are offering Rocker technology. I skied using early Rocker tech back in 2008/2009. I used a new pair last year, which I purchased for piste use. They carve very nicely, they are a fairly stiff, metal laminated ski AFAIR. I used them when I was having tuition in Chamonix, which was solely piste work. Skis which have Rocker can be longer, which is an advantage in soft snow, so the freeride models have long soft tips and tails which engage easily in powder. The downside of that, is that they flap like birds on hard piste :lol:

Far to tech for me I just want to ski

I'm with you, Ian. By the time I worked out which is the front end and which is the back, I'd be nearly at the bottom.I like my Rockers to be holding a guitar.

Dave Mac wrote:I'm with you, Ian. By the time I worked out which is the front end and which is the back, I'd be nearly at the bottom.I like my Rockers to be holding a guitar.

If you get some Twinnie's you won't need to work out which end is which, as they carve backwards just as well :D

Rocker makes it easier!