The Never List

pavelski wrote:

- on flats ( at base, on traverse sections) be very careful

Pavel

Amen to that, I bought a board last winter with reverse camber and rockered tip and tail. Effectively the board is curved longitudinally from the centre and curved upwards/outwards at the edge of the traditional points of contact. Now on powder and happily on tracked out off-piste this is awesome as it's very hard to catch an edge. It even performs well at speed on piste, and given the curve from the centre especially well in moguls, but drop the speed, lose concentration for a second on a flat or try and use a surface lift and it's useless.

SwingBeep wrote:Storm skis are made by Sporten in the Czech Republic. Their traditionally constructed skis are quite good, but their cap skis aren't up to much. There are several models on eBay uk from £110.

Thanks swingers I checked out the website a couple of weeks ago, and I'm tracking a pair on eBay .

Anything that has "3D shape" in the description is a cap ski.

SwingBeep,
Often skiers ask me, "what is the best ski,,,," ? The word they forget to place in those comma spaces is " for me" !

Then the next question is,,,,"what kind of skiing do you MOSTLY do? "

All skis are great these days !

The trick is to find a ski that fits your "skiing desires" !

The worst place to discover this is in the "marketing blurs" on net, in magazines and TV !

Be honest to yourself ! Do you want model XZY because it is the newest thing on slopes, the status ski or wildest graphics or because it makes you soar like Icarus with it !

It is up to each skier to discover that special ski !

But first,,,,,,, you must learn to ski effectively!

That is the "catch 22" ! ( read novel to get meaning) !

Pavel

All skis are great these days!

This simply isn't true; there are still considerable differences in performance and quality of construction between skis sold by the major manufacturers. In general skis with wooden cores and sidewalls perform better and last longer than cap skis, especially the ones with foam-injected cores.

From time to time Stiftung Warentest (a German consumer organisation) carries out ski tests.
In addition to performance tests (which are carried out in accordance with ISO 8783: Alpine skis -- Guidelines for conducting slope performance tests) they also measure the thickness of the edges, the flatness of the bases, determine the pull out strength of the edges and carry out impact tests on the tips and tails. Although they are in German and not up to date, the tables in these pdfs should give you some idea of what to be wary of.

http://www.test.de/themen/freizeit-reise/test/Carvingskier-Head-und-Voelkl-vorn-1725172-1728805/

http://www.test.de/themen/freizeit-reise/test/Carvingskier-Racer-machen-das-Rennen-1590245-1594928/

The German text may not be an issue. My view started in Deutsch, but then translated to English ~ helpful for technical issues. It may be the particular browser?

I think the point pav was making, is that skis are rather like cars (and so many other things we use). While it is true the one car may be better than another, compared to thirty years ago they are nearly all good. Design, technology and material make today's cheap ski perform better than most from years ago.

SwingBeep,
Yes Trencher, understood my point. I perhaps did not express myself clearly.

Let me try again.

First SwingBeep, you are very correct in noting that there are differences in ski construction and ski performance. If you have read some of my previous posts you will note that I mention this over and over again. That is the challenge for all skiers to find THE ski that fits their : price range, ability level and expectations!

In 2011 all the "low quality", inferior skis are gone ! The market is just to competitive ! Those companies that made "furniture", made aircrafts, that made armaments and on the side made also skis,,,,well they are gone ! Ski production is now controlled by huge "investment" companies and production is very technical.

My point was addressed to beginner skiers and not "sophisticated" , knowledgeable skiers like you ! Few skiers would know the difference in the Rockwell hardness of a ski edge or the thickness of two layers of Zincral !

There are other sites for experts in this matter. There they debate such technical matters!

On this site skiers what to find a ski that will make skiing "fun" that is relatively lower cost and not fall apart after one or two skiing trips! ( except for a few fanatics which will not be mentionned since everyone on this site knows them )I was addressing my comments to them.

Thank you however for making the point to others on how skis do vary in performance and construction. Also thank you for sharing the excellent Austrian site which lists skis !

One question to you SwingBeep in regards to that list.
Do you know the difference between criterion referenced evaluation of skis and normative referenced evaluation of skis ?

To really understand those charts,,one must understand how the evaluation is done!

Those ++++++ are based on skier's expectations,,standards or comparison of tested skis for that year? Understand my point ?

Respectfully,
Pavel