Offpiste advice for noobies

I was just visualizing to myself what would happen if I was ski-ing in a group which included one of my kids and none of us had avalanche kit, and there was an avalanche and I was OK but they were under it and all I had were my hands to dig them out with and nothing to locate them with :shock:

So - as I've said already - before I start going off piste I'm going to go on an avalanche course to learn how to use probes, shovels, and transceivers, and how to read the snow, avalanche bulletins, and the weather etc. And then I'm only going to ski serious off-piste stuff in a group where everyone is kitted out with avalanche gear and knows how to use it, and with a qualified guide.

Like most people I imagine, I really value my life, and I'm not prepared to take unecessary risks with it.

So, I suppose the first step for me would be to go to some of the avalanche lectures they have here in the U.K., maybe read a book on it, and then do one of the full day courses they offer in places like Val Thorens where they teach you how to find people buried in the snow etc.

And then, perhaps, one day if I'm feeling brave enough, I may do a course on off-piste ski-ing that the ski schools offer sometimes. I know the ESF offer this in certain resorts, like Meribel for example:

http://www.esf-meribel.com/ski-school-meribel/cours-ski-hors-piste/hors-piste.jsp

bandit wrote:

steverandomno wrote:

If SwingBeeps interpretation is correct, think about what this means. Imagine you are skiing with a guide in an area miles away from the resort having done everything right (training, checking avalanche bulletins, carrying the right equipment etc...). However, you are very unlucky and get into a situation where you need rescuing by your guide and companion, who also call mountain rescue and the emergency services. Do you then go to prison?

If you are prosecuted, are you tried by a jury of your peers? Are you tried by a jury of off piste skiers or the general public?

In that scenario the Guide is responsible as they are the professional in charge of the group/you.

Any trial like that would call an Expert Witness. In France Alain Duclos is often called to give an opinion. It's usually a Judge in charge.

http://www.alea-avalanche.com/

Bandit, I'm curious. As somebody who is experienced in off-piste and mountaineering, do you have an opinion about these legal issues?

verbier_ski_bum wrote:
Tony, with most injuries not life/limb-threatening and which happen in the proximity of pistes and easily accessible from there you won't be helicoptered off but brought down on sledges by patrol. Helicopters are expensive and even if you are fully covered it doesn't make practical sense to fly them especially that there can be a more serious situation elsewhere. If something happens patrol is usually called. They will only call a helicopter if there are no other means to get to you and get you down.

That might be the position in Switzerland but I have noticed a marked increase in the number of helicopter evacuations, even from pistes. I raised this locally with an instructor (in Soll, I think) and he said they have become much more concerned about concussion and other head injuries, probably post-Miranda Richardson, and will call in the helicopter if there is any evidence of confusion, etc.

Of course,the suspicious might think it is about ensuring that the service has enough business to make it viable :twisted:

Whatever the justification, full insurance cover is essential unless you want to face an extremely expensive bill :evil: I think this also means that it would be wise to get "full off-piste insurance" if you are venturing outside the piste poles, even on a limited basis :shock:

Reading all of the above, fascinating though it all is, I'm so glad my own modest skill level makes me quite happy with on-piste skiing !

I presume it is a prerequisite then to have appropriate first aid and medical skills if you have all the avalanche kit? On the other side of the coin, if you have the kit does it make it easier to be found or should I say quicker to be found if 'taken'? or is it just designed to find people? Can anyone recommend the best value for money kit for recreational skiers? Thanks

steverandomno wrote:

Bandit, I'm curious. As somebody who is experienced in off-piste and mountaineering, do you have an opinion about these legal issues?

In no way am I experienced in off piste or mountaineering. I have barely scratched the surface. The more I learn, the more I realise there is to learn.
My personal opinion is that reckless behaviour off piste should be addressed pretty firmly. If this does not happen, it will eventually become impossible to buy affordable insurance.

Adam67 wrote:I presume it is a prerequisite then to have appropriate first aid and medical skills if you have all the avalanche kit? On the other side of the coin, if you have the kit does it make it easier to be found or should I say quicker to be found if 'taken'? or is it just designed to find people? Can anyone recommend the best value for money kit for recreational skiers? Thanks

Sport Conrad are offering safety packages this winter. Everyone knows a little first aid, enough to save a life. If you are wearing a Transceiver and your friends are also wearing them, then if you are buried, it's easier to find you. A Probe to pinpoint your position under the snow and a decent Shovel to dig you out quickly.
The 1st and golden rule is not to put yourself in the position where you might get buried (which is why education is very important)

I don't know about other resorts, but Tignes has an avalanche training zone, by the lake, which apparently (according to the piste map) has 8 beacons buried permanently under the snow so that people can practise their search technique using avalanche transceivers.