J2Ski Forum Posts and Replies by pavelski

One of the very best sites for honest, to the point evaluation on skiing is Realskier. Here is their "opinion" on the ski length issue.

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Traditional pole sizing was determined by donning boots, inverting the pole, placing the hand grip on the ground and grasping the shaft below the ring, with forearm parallel to the ground.

Modern technical skiers use poles about 1" shorter than traditional length.

Bumps skiers, hyper-carvers or extremely fast skiers may use a pole up to two inches shorter than traditional length.

But, be careful. Lifters and high-rise bindings add about 1.5" to the stand height of the ski. Simply using plates could make the pole effectively too short. Try to measure length while simulating stand height?the distance the sole of the foot is above the ground. Any competent shop can assist in this measurement."

I am always on the lookout for great ski deals.

In Canadian ski stores the Toko sells for 125$. Cost for store is $60. I bough my first vice with university racing team and since we bought 10 units we got wholesale price at $50 ( many years ago).


There are "deals" where ski resorts close, ski stores close or ski center auctions. The units I have now I bought for $70 at a ski center that had "silent auction" !

This is one tool that you must consider quality since you can ruin your fingers and ski edges if vice releases.

Many ski racers sell their vices once they give up ski racing, or just get some free!

Good vices last a very long time so if you think over a 20 year period ( that is how long mine last) it really is not that expensive. Also once you have mastered the tuning you will find "friends " will ask to have a hand tune done. Yes you can pay off your great vice in one season.

Sorry but I do not know any good vices under $50. However I do visit many many ski shops during the year, if you really want a good vice and are patient tell me and if I see a great deal I will buy one for you!

Geoff Smith is a real Renaissance man showing us all how skiing, math and art can be related.

I think we could take skiing and have a complete course on:
math, physics, art, and of course abnormal psychology!

The world of knowledge does converge!

Did you know that the fastest time between two points on ski course is NOT a straight line. A great physics university final exam question.

Geof Smith asked an interesting question. Yes the pole length is determined initially based on skiers height. That is the famous 90 degree forearm position.

Then within this range skiers "adjust" the length for their needs. As mentioned some skiers wish a slightly shorter pole to have weight in front. It puts you into a more "attacking" position.

After Ellistine's message I realized that I did not know my pole length so I measured it. I then realized that I really did cut it short!!!

Sorry too ashamed to post it on net.

Ellistine,

How did you determine that the racers have longer poles?
Were you beside them? Were you at base lodge when they finished the race?

I suspect you watched some videos or films. Notice how racers in full action are low like tight coiled spring! Notice also that 70% of racing time poles baskets are either behind skiers body or up front to knock gate pools ahead!

Notice also in GS and Downhill how poles are used more as "feelers" than as pivot points.

In World Cup events each racers seems to have "their" pole length and yeas even in various events ( Slalom, Giant Slalom, Downhill) many if not all racers have specific pole lengths.

You yourself mentioned that you are not a racer and thus you should pick pole length for ski efficiency and comfort.

Now if you ask me how to determine correct pole length here are some considerations. Many many years ago there was a way to get correct ski length. You all know the raised arm to tip method. This method is incorrect now.

So it is with ski poles. The 90 degree bend was perhaps correct 20 years ago but skiing equipment and technique has change radically. Poling has changed also!

What interesting is that some ski pole companies have made some changes in their ski pole design. The very best and the very first carbon ski pole company,,,,Goode has under the ski pole handle a locking mechanism and an adjustable handle. Thus you can with a simple Allen key raise or lower the ski pole handle.

I use a longer ski pole when I ski in powder.

I use a shorter ski pole when I free ski on icy steep slopes.

One conclusion on this issue is that all modern poles are shorter for FREE SKIING since you rarely set and pivot around the pole! They now are used more as initial rythm moves!

Of course when you do come to Canada you will be able to try various pole lengths to see which ones are best for you!

Cheers

I do not recommend this vice. Here are the reasons.

Plastic based I do not like plastic for tools.

It uses tension string to hold ski down. Such vices then to move at the center. You can not do serious edge work with this type.

I recommend the three unit type. Fpor years I used the Toko 2 unit type and it was great. However these three units with clamp in center are so much more "tight"! With so many ski shapes thes units adapt well.

Nice to see we will have more topics to discuss.

Well the class list is fast becoming complete and again we have a wide participation. I had planned to start course in August in order to get all the skis ready for the winter season, however I must "visit" my local hospital for some knee surgery. If you all do not mind we will formally start classes in September.

Meanwhile you can all do the following to prepare for the classes;
1. Buy old old pre-steam iron
2. Buy some 6" mill bastard files ( at least two) Fine cut.
3. Locate a work area since this will be a "hands-on" course
4.Buy some ski vices or wait for me to show you how to construct some form of ski holding device. Read last year's messages. In my opinion ski vices are a must. it is well worth the money to buy a set. My have lasted me 20 years!
5. Buy some sanding paper ( metal type) at least 60 , 120, 150 grit!
6. Buy a sanding block or get stiff sponge block
7. Buy some pot plastic scrub pads ( two grades rough and fine)
8. Get apron ( of you design or type)
9. Obtain at least two old skis. I have discovered children"s skis are very cheap ($5) and short! The more damaged at base and edges the better!!!!!
10. Start to make Christmas list for your parents, friends and husband and wife so that you get great ski tuning tools in December.

As we go along I will ask you to buy more tools.

You are all in the 90 percentile as far as ski interest. The first question you should all ask yourselves is how "serious" do you want to get in the tuning! There will be two levels of interest; level 1 for general interest and level 2 for serious life long interest. I will post material needed for both groups.

At level 1 you just want to get started in ski tuning thus all tools will be "basic" but good so that you do not injure yourselves. My experience has been "cheap" tools break and cause injury. Get good tools right away!

Level two is a more serious involvement thus I will recommend that you buy some tools now and get the best so that they will last you a life time. Vices is a good example. If you really are serious about tuning you need ski vices. Not woodworking vices, not steel all purpose vices, You will damage your skis and hurt yourself.
Ski vices are "specialized". They have rubber inserts to protect ski edges. They have notches for vertical and horizontal placement.
If you do plan to buy vices please note that older models have an opening range that is too narrow ( old skis were narrow), so be careful.
With the use of integrated plates I using more and more a three unit vice in which the two extreme platforms ( at tip and tail) are adjustable, while the center unit clamps onto the ski plate!

You will need some wax bars. I buy mine in large quantities at $8 a kilogram bar, You can also do so via ski school racing clubs, university ski clubs or local ski schools! I hope that at end of course you will get to know each other and "pool" your needs. In my case I have about 20 skiers who annually "contribute" to a large purchase of ski wax, thus we get wholesale prices. Whatever you do, NEVER buy those small tiny store waxes. Too expensive! Do not buy the $90 per bar high tech waxes! All-purpose wax for all ski conditions is great for ski storing in the Summer, but not for skiing! You must get at least three temp. ranges. I will discuss this in course.

Do not use candle wax or bees wax.

In conclusion, August will be your month of preparation. Get your husband, wife, parents ready to to smell of wax. Ask them permission to do this course and to "allow" you a place to: making a mess, to sanding ski bases, to toil on steel and plastic.


PS
If you have read the class outline, I am sure you have noted that we will also work on boot tuning. If possible get an old boot with cant adjustment, lean ad flex adjustment.

Also if possible get a camera so that you can send me pictures of your work!

Welcome Daiana,

Here is some advice from a really really addicted skier.

I am sure you have heard this comment before! When you go "on holiday" you actually are taking 3 holidays.
The first holiday is planning all the fun you will have.
The second is actually living this fun
The third holiday is re-living it with your friends!

I assume you really are a neophytes, thus have no equipment or ski outfits. If so, the first step is get ski outfits


You want your holiday to be positive and lasting thus I recommend a ski center that is "centered on learning"

Take the time to learn correctly how to ski, I promise you your addiction will provide much pleasure.

I am sure you will get many suggestions for ski centers, again I stress that you go to a ski center that is known for great ski instructors.

I prefer ski centers that provide 4 hours of lessons per day. That is 2 hours in morning and 2 in afternoon.

I also suggest you make sure you can "move" from class level to class level. Thus if you are fit and a great student you may "progress" faster than rest of class!

Rent the very best skis and boots. Do not get "cheaper" skis which often are called rental skis. For a little more you can get "high performance" skis. These are not racing skis but just more "sensitive" also get women specific skis. Same with boots. Do not get rear entry boots! I will be spending a whole class ( in tuning section) on selecting boots and pros and cons to rear entry boots. Suffice to say these boots are nearly all off the marker except for rental ( or as they say in England "for hire") programs.

May I suggest a smaller better groomed center.

Since I do not know your budget please send me via PM your budget and I will show you how to save some money!

Hope this has helped you.

Pavel