A term to never use,,,,on slope and off slope!!

andyhull wrote:A Snow Plough stop is still better than a Parallel crash!

Except for the audience of course .......
:roll:

Trencher wrote:Much of the problem is in how it is taught. A slight wedge with feet shoulder width apart, will quickly become parallel skis. The movements to start a turn are same as those for parallel turns.

Spot on Trencher. The two videos show how the children act naturally, defensive at first then relaxed. With confidence the skis relax into a more parallel position, less plough.

Then a smart move, once the confidence is high, is to run some exercises, skiing straight down the fall line on a reasonably gentle slope, with repeat turns, aimed at rhythm ~ TURN,TURN,TURN, .....

Two to three runs has them forgetting the plough, and the skis are doing the work.

Good time to work on some proper technique then.... :wink:

Trencher wrote:Much of the problem is in how it is taught. A slight wedge with feet shoulder width apart, will quickly become parallel skis. The movements to start a turn are same as those for parallel turns. A wide snowplough, which is constantly used as a brake teaches very little of the movements needed for good skiing. In fact it encourages some bad habits to form. Even experienced racers can't maintain a good stance while snowploughing to smooth out a race course.

Trencher's point is, I think, a very relevant one. It reflects (although I didn't realise it at the time) the way I was taught in a very good Austrian ski-school. By day 3, most of the group were almost instincitvely transforming their snow ploughs into imperfect, but getting there, parallels. Good point Trencher.

I wonder if there is another clue in the way and why the snowplough is taught?

Maybe there are two ways to go and learn to ski.
1 - I am going to become a skier, I need to learn all about it, I am going to ski for the rest of my life.
2 - I wonder if I will enjoy skiing? My friends, OH, enjoy skiing I will give it a go. Better have some lessons I suppose.

I have noticed over the years, and so have French instructors I have spoken to, that the Brit. audience tends to have lessons, get the basics, and then go for it. Whereas the French "mentality" is to continue having lessons for much longer. I clearly saw this whilst staying in a Club Med venue, where lessons are included. The French pretty much all joined lessons for at least the half day, irespective of skill level whereas the Brits just didn't.

My point (after a rather protracted preamble) isn't about the pros and cons of either of these aproaches but whether there needs to be two types of lesson on offer which would lead to a different aproach.
1 - Technique, technique and become a "proper" skier. Slower and to many a boring aproach but I reckon quite a common mentality amongst instructors.
2 - I'm on holiday, help me enjoy myself, help me get around on this white stuff. Don't care what I look like to "aficionados", not bothered if I'm doing it "right" - I just wanna have fun.

I think a formal and protracted (to some) use of the snowplough fits the "technique, technique" method but not the "let's have fun method".

OldAndy wrote:

I think a formal and protracted (to some) use of the snowplough fits the "technique, technique" method but not the "let's have fun method".

Other way round. A wide snowplough lets people get about and have fun (for now), but instills bad habits.

Well, it certainly is a great idea to keep on having lessons even after you have supposedly learned to ski.

I was definitely a lets have fun guy. I started in the late eighties and didn't have any proper lessons, just tips from friends.

In the last few years I have started having some lessons and reading the books to improve my skiing and I now really enjoy trying to get to be a good skier.

Do I regret not having lessons all the way? No, I've had a lot of fun skiing badly but safely down all pistes. Is it difficult to remove engrained habits? Yes but not impossible.

My kids have some lessons but not that many. They love skiing and I didn't want learning to be an excellent skier to be a chore for them. They are safe and in control by the way. Now though they are getting interested in properly learning to be a good skier and I'm all for it.

I guess I'm just saying that you don't have to do it totally by the book.

Mike3000,
Ha,,,,,the book ! ( and now You Tube ) !
Learning by the book,,,is fine to get the "main idea" of what skiing is all about, but well travelled skiers will tell you that the book can never prepare you for;
-the challenges you will face ( both physical and mental)
-the many senses awakened in you
-the fears and joys you will have
-the freedom discovered
-the techniques and strategies you must and will acquire.

The book is so "intellectual" skiing is so sensual !

Sorry Mike but yes a one time book read is fine, but if you want soar then get lessons at least to get basics. 90% of skiers do just 3 major "errors" and if they could avoid these they will enjoy skiing so much more.

In my opinion not taking lessons is like learning how to build a house while building it ( and often you do not have right tools ) !

Those few euros you will 'invest" in your pleasure will be worth it! Trust me.
You will progress faster. You will not have "bad" habits which will linger for years and perhaps ,,,just perhaps you will save your back, knee or relationship !

Strange how skiers will pay many euros for great outfits, skis, hotel etc,,,,but on themselves to be better skiers,,,,,,,,,,,

You deserve it,,,,,,so do it ! As the French say it,,you will have, "pure bonheur" !