who's got the answer ?

what I still can't work out is if a 4x4 is less environmentally friendly than say a Toyota Prius, does the extra money we'll have to stump up for road tax stop global warming or increase the size of the treasury :?:

to conclude, no one has the answer!

freezywater wrote:what I still can't work out is if a 4x4 is less environmentally friendly than say a Toyota Prius, does the extra money we'll have to stump up for road tax stop global warming or increase the size of the treasury :?:

Our household had a Toyota Prius on extended test this year. The much heralded, environmentally friendly electric motor was over ridden by the petrol engine if we had the aircon switched on when starting up. The petrol engine also started up if doing more than walking pace. The batteries contained with in the car are very environmentally unfriendly, road handling was plain awful...I could go on, you get the idea :shock:
My 4x4 does more mpg than say either a Chrysler Voyager or Renault Espace...go figure :wink:

freezywater wrote:ISE

Shouldn't you be out on the mountian before global warming does for the ski industry :?:

I agree that previous cooling down / warming up periods may not be down to the same cause, however, there is eveidence out there that would suggest that the politicians are getting it DRASTICALLY wrong, however as we all know politicians are never wrong but for those who prefer to get a balanced view read these
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1363818.ece and http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/18/wsun18.xml

The Times piece is an op-ed piece by a guest writer who by an odd coincidence was publishing a book which I think disappeared without trace. The Telegraph piece is built around some research by Dr Sami Solanki and dates to 2004, and I think Sami should have the last word on that one :

Dr Sami Solanki wrote:A misleading account of my views was published in the Toronto National Post in March, 2007 (and is to be found at different places on the web). In contrast to what is written there I am not a denier of global warming produced by an increase in the concentration of greenhouse gases. Already at present the overwhelming source of global warming is due to manmade greenhouse gases and their influence will continue to grow in the future as their concentration increases. The same newspaper already misquoted other scientists on this topic. See, for example, the home page of Nigel Weiss of Cambridge University http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/now/

As it happens I have been on a mountain for the last few days in temperatures of minus 20 analysing snow pack stability and doing some snow study.

Jesus, they don't let you be very outspoken in this forum do they. Anyway, I can role with that.

So, sorry everybody for my alleged ranting and whatever else you guys like to hear. It just made me mad that there are still people for whom we being the number one reason for the greenhouse effect is not a given yet. Ok, there have been ice ages, yes, and the world as we know it has not always been stable. However, that does not wipe away the fact that we contribute greatly to global warming and do much more than our share to get nature out of balance. It simply cannot hurt to live a more sustainable life, can it. Mostly it is small an simple things, like turning of the light, when you are not in the room or using energy saving light bulbs or pulling plugs from devices with a standby light or using public transportation or a bike or walk instead of getting into your SUV to drop of a letter at the local post office and there is so much more…

In one of the last answers

Dshenberger wrote: Look around! The majority of cars are much smaller than they have ever been! And fuel economy is far better than the dream you hold of some utopian past.

Now, I don’t know where you live, but in my city the number of “Porsche Cayennes” and “Mercedes M-Classes” and SUV’s of similar proportions seems to have increased tremendously over the last view years. And that the fuel economy is far better than a dream I supposed to hold is surely a joke that I don’t want to comment on – speaking of ranting.

I guess, what I am trying to say here is that I probably have a different perception on how small cars have gotten or not. Maybe I notice those overly pretentious SUV's more since I know how bad they are for the environment. However, even if it were true there being a majority of smaller cars these days, which I very much doubt, that doesn’t mean that the size of the car is a solution to the ongoing carbon dioxide emission. Especially since the carbon dioxide emitted by building these cars does not immediately correlate with their size. Moreover, industrial pollution is far graver than pollution by traffic.

(btw. Catharina or Katrina was a hurricane that hit New Orleans in August 2005 flooding over 80 per cent of the city – probably one of the biggest catastrophes ever to hit the USA.)

But by the reactions in this forum, I see some of you have your doubts about global warming and the role of the human hand in it as some of you have your doubts about evolution even. And no ranting tree hugger like me, as I might be perceived by some of you, will change your believes. So as much as it is dissatisfying, we will have to agree to disagree on certain points – most of them actually. And if some of you want to go on believing that global warming is a lie put out there by Western governments in an attempt to stop China and India from growing then, as ridiculous as this sounds, go on believing this conspiracy nonsense. If you don’t seem to deem it necessary to change your life just a little bit in order to stop let alone reverse certain effects that many years of careless polluting have caused, who am I to tell you to do so - just some ranting environmentalist who will blow away and be silent in a second.

Peace out!
M

Maikol wrote:Jesus, they don't let you be very outspoken in this forum do they.

Outspoken is fine - just be cool. 8)


For something as emotive as global warming you're going to find a range of strongly-held opinion in any "random" sample of people.

Unfortunately, as Ross succinctly observes - none of us have the answer; we simply don't know.

Going back to the observations of the original poster - last year's late snows were proclaimed by some as proof of man-made global warming; this year's early snows are seen by others to prove the opposite. In truth, neither view is right - we had dry winters long before the present global warming began, and we'll continue to see occasional severe winters for a long time yet.

Personally, I agree with a lot of what you say - the thousands of scientists whose work contributes to the IPCC cannot be ignored. But the obvious and cynical agendas of our various politicians pollute the arguments on all sides.

The reason why we have such different opinions on this subject is due to the lack of information from the IPCC who should and could give explanations to the variants were seeing

If there so sure about whats going to happen then why can't they understand what has happened, surely its easier to explain the past then to predict the future ? isn't it !!

In the space of twelve months we've gone from a December which resembled more like a July to a December which resembles more like a March and no body seems to know why :?:

Can anyone else recall a prediction that I heard about this issue. I’m no meteorologist and may not get this quite right but hopefully someone will fill in the gaps.

The prediction went as follows:
1. Temperature rises
2. Arctic polar ice melts
3. Northern North Atlantic becomes less salty
4. The salinity induced circulation of the warm waters from the Gulf to Northern Europe slows or stops.
5. Northern Europe becomes substantially colder than at present. More like BC, Ontario or Quebec.
6. Winter sport enters an era of unprecedented demand due to an 8 month season and perfect snow on a daily basis (Ok, I made that bit up)

So can any one corroborate this memory? If so it could well be that warm for the globe would mean cooler for Northern Europe. Not sure what the impact would be on The States & Canada?

Happy pondering

Jan