Interesting thought exercise about why we love skiing

I'm going to be controversial here... I know i know, but i'm bored of everything being a verbal colour of beige... not wanting to upset anyone etc etc. snooze...

These days, mountains are too accessible. taking a qualified mountain guide out on the mountain seems to me like a not too great an idea. Yes, there are people out there who have the skill set to handle themselves in a risky situation but there are more people out there who can't and put the owness on the Guide to look after them, a guide will only show you a route, if you were to fall down a crevasse you need to have at least some knowledge of how to get yourself out. Too many times do I hear of people getting into risky situations that they don't know how to get out of, too many times do I hear of people dis-regarding weather warnings, snow conditions, av risk etc etc too many times do I hear of people dying because they don't know what they're doing. basically all sound advice from people who know what they're talking about. Off-Piste skiing, Ski-alpinism, touring etc need a spicialised skill set that you should train for before attempting. The risks are high and what a lot of people dont realise is that the Mountain only lets you do what it wants you to do... It can takes weeks for the conditions to become 'perfect' to attempt a risky ascent/decent etc.

I love skiing, don't get me wrong... I hate the cold, but I love what winter gives me. I like to attempt to take risks when skiing, but I know the difference between when something looks safe and when something is safe. after all I want to live to ski another day.

I definitly wonder why so many people bring their children to the mountains to ski. As a kid I was always more interested in the box than the toy, and from my experience of hearing the majority of young children screaming and crying because they dont want to go skiing or out in to rediculously cold temperatures but are made to by their parents, I wonder how much has been spent on Family Ski holidays that where more stressful and traumatizing than exhilerating and fulfilling. Why do you take your young child skiing? and what do they understand about it? now that's a question for a Social Science course...

Interesting post. Especially for your first

Not sure I agree with you regarding use of guides. They are excellent source of knowledge and will normally review with group transceiver search (given they go first is in their best interest) and few basic knots which will cover you for most scenarios. If you ask to cover something they will never say no and just through discussion you absorb huge amount of knowledge. Hence over a period of time even a skier with little or no interest in mountaineering/climbing will pick up basics of crevasse travel/rescue, belay, abseil, recognizing avalanche danger etc.

Reality is in most situations in event of incident first call should be to mountain rescue (this is regardless if you are a guide/client/ group) and other groups nearby for assistance. Simple example, ski buddy falls in crevasse; even though I practice would never like to trust an ice axe or ski anchor in scenario you cannot get down to hard ice to put a screw in. Why would you put full trust in a single anchor which if fails will likely kill. Similarly given most of us do not live in a resort full time and or travel resort to resort you are unlikely to have a full picture of snow pack (wind/rain/warm periods). Use of local knowledge/expertise is in these situations entirely sensible. Hence guide becomes safest and often most enjoyable (can find you fresh snow in areas you might not have confidence to go alone).

Obviously above only works in weather where helicopters can fly and or you can see/signal other persons. Hence anytime you head out in more serious weather and or remote region all persons need top have sufficient knowledge. When they don't is normally when incidents turn into injuries and or fatalities.

It may be my first post, but it's not my first opinion.

Teaching you how to tie a knot won't save your life, at some point you have to take resposibility for actually having a knowledge base rather than thinking you do... Winter skills courses are great for this and you get put in 'situations' that are of no threat to your safety but you learn how to tie a knot when you have only 1 hand free etc... priceless skills.

anyway, tieing a knot and using an ice axe doesn't mean you have experience, after all I can tie a know and use an axe... doesn't mean i'm going to be running up the North Face of the Eigar any time soon. Take some time learn the mountain, learn your skills, and learn about better judgement they all massively reduce risk

Yes and learn ideally with a guide, either via a winter skills course and or taking one for specific target in mountains be it skiing/climbing etc. There is no chicken and egg with mountain experience. You need to get into them to learn and guide is still most controlled manner and best way to learn correct skills. Otherwise it starts to sound like you can't enjoy a Vallee Blanche without having x? amount of experience, which is rubbish. Intermediate skier, with guide is safe way for someone to get first high mountain experience. Cannot agree with anyone frowning upon average piste skier enjoying this.

Vallee blanche may be a good first high mountain exp, but you need to be a good skier to actually do it, and do it justice I mean, not just 'get down it'. There is a chicken and egg arguement here, after all you didn't run before you could walk... did you? learning safely and gradually increasing your knowledge base are drastically under rated. In this last week alone i've seen more than 5 avalanches, heard more, and seen the trail of distruction they've left behind. I saw some idiot snowboarders attempting to ski off piste under one of the biggest cornices and av prone sides on the mountain... no egg is gonna survive but at least a chicken can run

Nobody learnt to walk without falling over a few times. There will always be a few people who consciously or not make decisions which put themselves and or others in danger.

Am not sure there is any disagreement with learning but I still believe you have to get out there. You can do courses, have guides but at some point an amount of people will want to go out alone (might be financial, might be that they want to start making decisions). At this point you will make a few mistakes and just like in life some of the best lessons will be from failure and or close calls. How much experience a groups should have Is not an easy call to make. I get in region of 10-15 weeks of skiing/climbing in a year, probably 3-4 of which will be guided. Still when my brother/friends visit we go offpiste, tour over glacier etc. Realistically I doubt they could haul me out of a crevasse but in good weather there is little additional risk. Yes ideally everyone in group should carry a rope and know how to use it but this is rarely case in any ski group. People could discuss forever what should be minimum kit in a group and there will be times when you might wish you had more, this is a risk/judgment you make.

As for doing any ski run justice is not for me to judge someone else. Some people will find the Midi ridge the toughest part, others may fall down a few times but they are learning and having fun. Yes can be annoying if groups cannot put in ski tracks next to each other and eat up the powder but sometimes ability of groups differ. Spent many a happy day with slower friends enjoying their first offpiste experience, progressing first red, first black. This is the social part of skiing, mountaineering, climbing. Even with similar experience not everyone is created equal

I told you what I was going to say was going to be controversial. But it's the truth, MOST people aren't equipped with BASIC knowledge to take those first steps. I've seen A LOT of stupidity on the mountains. I stress the word MOST. You may take a rope or whatever up the mountain, but MOST people who go off piste or whatever don't. You may have Basic winter skills but MOST people don't and this is my point. 1 sensible person doesn't make a safe group. and to one of your earlier points about a guide will never say no... well he should! what use is a guide who doesn't say no, the point is you're paying for his knowledge and experience of the mountain so if he doesn't say no to something which he knows is unsafe but he (personally) can handle, what does this say about his leadership skills? zero is what! as a guide he doesn't know what skills (if any) his group has, even if he has just shown them how to tie a knot or 2...