Who offers ski hosting?

Saw this thread changing course in an interesting direction earlier but didn't have time to reply.
The Morgan test case is interesting, if anyone sees any more about this I would like to read the details more fully.

Antipathy between UK tour staff guiding/hosting or whatever and locals, particularly ESF is by no means a new phenoma.

In 1985 our guides in 3V had several run ins with ESF, there was the same "you shouldn't be doing it - you aren't qualified" stance, even though at the least they all had BASI qualifications.

But next year in Les Arcs there was no problem ESF really happy that we offered guiding, in fact an ESF instructor took the new guides out for a bit of a show around early season (FOC). Think I remember correctly that there was more of a problem in Val D'Isere than Tignes as well.

So, in my view and experience it has been very much a resort specific problem. Last year with MW in L2A they seemed to have their guiding/ski hosting and relationship with ESF going well. This may be the key point - the tour operators relationship with the local ESF. ESF I am pretty sure is still a cooperative sort of business where each school is independent under an umbrella organisation. It is down to the school director to set the tone with that specific school.

With the forced opening up of the ski school market 20 or so years ago ESF got a shock, and in my view, did up their game considerably as a result and the employment of UK staff in France became legal, both as instructors and in other capacities.

But I have heard that some ESF branches really haven't adapted to new conditions with competition.

I am pretty sure that there have been attempts in the past to get ski hosts legally banned across france but these have fallen down - could be about the legality of employment. This time as safety is the issue it may be different. Mind you I would really like to see some statistics about injuries with hosts and, of course, compare this to injuries with instructors and qualified guides - now those would be interesting!!

ESF are in danger of really shooting themselves in the foot if they got this through. What tour operator would recommend ESF if they were banned from ski hosting? I'm sure they would be forging links with the non ESF schools in pretty much every resort.

I wonder if it is ESF central (the governing body) or one or more of the ESF 3V ski schools that is co-sponsoring this attempt?

Do hope they loose!!

As a separate point it is my understanding that in Austria the number of days that hosting is "allowed" is limited - certainly is with MW. Anyone know what the position is in Switzerland and Italy?

Perhaps they've been targeted because they recommend Next Generation, Top Ski and The Development Centre ski schools and not ESF?

andyhull wrote:Perhaps they've been targeted because they recommend Next Generation, Top Ski and The Development Centre ski schools and not ESF?

Could well be Andy

andyhull wrote:

The difference seems to be getting paid for it. Anyone leading the way but not getting paid for it isn't doing anything wrong.

SCGB Leaders are not paid, and some are qualified Ski Instructors. In Verbier a few years back, there was an awful accident off piste with an SCGB group. A snowboarder died. This was being taken through the Swiss Courts as (AFAIK) a criminal prosecution.

I'm not up to date on developments, I don't know if it's been resolved/shelved or will proceed.

I bet Swingbeep will know the answer. -)

It's about being seen as the responsible person in the group, it does not seem to matter where on the mountain you might be.

As old Andy says, this has been going on for 20+ years, with guides, sorry hosts, being arrested at regular intervals.

The key is the being paid bit.

However the ESF should have licenced hosts years ago, running a pre-season safety course, with refresher courses held annually for the more experienced. That way they make money from it, and ensure that a paid host understands their role and responsibilities properly, as well as knowing that the skiers who are too tight to pay for lessons aren't allowed to tag along with the hosts.

It's a simple solution that would work for all sides, IMHO, and I've said this ever since I worked in Meribel in the early 1990s.

In my view the whole issue is about envy and money.
ESF instructors aren't generally salaried but paid for the hours they work. So in low season those lower on the ranking don't get any work and see those unlicensed Brits swanning around and drinking in the bars etc.

The bit about taking money from ski school is I think a cultural thing. There is this assumption that Brits without hosts would pay for ski school - doubt if many would in my opinion, different market, different mindset, diferent culture to the French.

When I was with Club Med a couple of years ago this was brought home to me as we didn't join the lessons that were included in the price, nor did any Brits except the kids as far as i could see - even though some instructors spoke good English and English speaking groups were on offer. I have seen this before in french run hotels where so many of the French have lessons every year whereas the Bits tend to stop once the basics have been mastered, or have a few lessons, maybe a couple of hours of private.

I really don't think that many of the ESF instructors "get it" - ski hosting doesn't mean loss of money. Going with a host for a days skiing isn't about saving money on ski school - it is totally different.

Until the ESF lot "get it" they will continue to hassle and object around the idea of British tour operators offering free ski hosting.

Maybe if the pistes were graded more accurately, and signposted more carefully, and the piste maps were easier to follow, none of us would need ski hosts/guides anyway :lol:

Being paid or not is not relevant. The French authorities care about the function, how groups are behaving on the slopes.