Differences between parallel and carve turns?

82ross wrote:

Is the beginning of this video a fair example of parallel turning?

What they're doing at the very beginning of that vid are what are know as 'braquage' turns. This is an exercise where you turn but never really engage the edges at the end of the turn. This is a good exercise to get the idea of pivotting/turning your skis when they are flat on the snow.

The basic parrallel starts about 1min 15s into the clip, and is a good example. Notice how they gradually flex downwards at the end of the turn to increase angulation (hip and knee) and engage the edges before smoothly coming off the edges at the start of the next turn.

Thanks. Been looking at loads of (online) videos an most of them end up with poor comments about old or just plain poor demonstrations. Are the warren smith dvds agreed to be a really good source of uptodate instructional material? Are there any others I should know about? :)

I can get myself down the blacks but with all the grace of a brussel sprout and using 10 times more energy than I should. Good videos can point out some of the things i was never taught or have never heard about before. What else am I gonna do before i get my skis back on after xmas eh!

Great read by Pavelski again!

+5

the diffirence is that the parralel skier is more agressive and trying to ski a very short radius, the carving skier is just trying to go fast and horizontal as he can, trying to hit the piste with his ass if you know what i mean :D
i like the agressive style, mogul skiing
check this
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw1xEOWbFIY
and this
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=K_A2Ce1VDMY&feature=related
and this
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=gPfAlSj_rDY
and this

and this but then whit the old skis
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=MApwEehMKP4

ow and here is a site with some videos, i think its really helpful for the advanced skier
http://www.skinastc.com/m4_s1.html

I have just found this forum or would have posted sooner on this thread. Most of what I would say to Jake in answer to his original question has been said here and there so in some ways I'm picking out comments and summarising.

Carved turns are parallel turns. There are 3 elements in turning on skis: rotation, pressure and edges. That is, you can rotate your feet and steer your skis; you can change the pressure on your skis by stretching and flexing your legs; and you can tilt your skis over so that their edges cut into the snow. While you can turn by using each one of these elements uniquely, most people will turn using all three to varying degrees - except when specifically carving or doing these bracquage turns mentioned above.

The first part of the video Ross84 asks about shows skiers who are turning almost exclusively by foot rotation - the skis are fairly flat; there is not much vertical movement; and there is no tilting on to their edges. The later turns show a bit more vertical movement (ie stretching of the upper leg in initiating the turn, and flexing later in the turn to resist the pressure of the centrifugal force). There is still foot rotation and now some tilting of the skis. In both the early turns and the later ones the skis skid round quite a bit (not a fault by the way).

A carved turn is essentially achieved by tilting the skis so that you are turning entirely on the edges so that there is no skidding. This means you don't use any foot rotation. If you get it right you can look back and see two parallel cleanly cut tracks in the snow. You use vertical movement (pressure) which facilitates edge change and crossing the hips over the skis.

I think, Jake, you should see carved turns not as something differentfrom other parallel turns but as a progression from your more skidded turns where foot rotation is evident to a greater or lesser extent. You will need to understand a bit more about the inclination (ie leaning into the inside of the turn) you need in order to tilt your skis effectively and the way in which you angle your upper body out in order to counterbalance the inclination of your lower body. (If you don't counterbalance with your upper body you can end up banking rather than inclining - ie your weight goes on to the upper ski and your feet are liable to head off straight downhill depositing you inelegantly on your side.)

There is a lot of work ahead to achieve good carved turns but the outcome is very satisfying and the learning is fun. I doubt if you will do it just by reading descriptions like this. There are various drills an instructor can give you to get the feel of it. Get yourself a lesson! Or two.

Good luck!

Pavelski gave a good short history of the development of parallel skiing. The stem christie was aimed at a middle step between snowplough and parallel. The problem was that a lot of skiers remained locked in the stem process, because they perceived an issue of retaining balance by progressing to parallel.

We used, with reasonable success, to cut out the christie phase, through a process of cross-hill traverse stops, progressing to an "Open knee swing". That is using a change of terrain to assist in the initiation of the turn, skis parallel, shoulder width apart. It works well, but is difficult for beginners to grasp. This was in effect a carved turn, but it took a lot of ground, and was only any use on slight slopes. Shorter skis and changed camber has made this process easier to achieve.

Enlightment only really occured when the pupil grasped the technique of heel slip, which, then allied with the parallel turn gave the combination of ability, control and confidence.

Incidentally, there was a period in the early 70's when we were mandated to teach downward unweighting, called "Avaloment" in the France and "Grundschwung" in the Austrian ski school. High backed boots quickly appeared followed by rickety knees! It developed into an extreme form, termed "Jetting", sitting down on a snow bump, twisting the knees, and jetting the skis away! I remember bolting 8 inch vertical extensions to the back of my boots!

Having said all that, there are occasions when downward unweighting is rewarded.

I agree with ski53 and ben76 that carving is a parallel action. Also, there is nothing wrong with "knees together", it is a style variation along with the rest.

And if more girls skied with their legs together......

Dave Mac