Turning Radius Question?

If you are beginner you will not "feel" anything since you have not yet developed that fine "skiers touch". It will come.

Stay on standard position.

To answer your question, YES the change of binding position will effect skiing. Try this. All ski demo bindings have a position range of 15 cm., thus you can rent a pair and have units very forward for two hours . Then go back to shop and have units moved back.

Once you have ski "feel" you will note something amazing. I will not tell you since it will "spoil" the surprise.

Here is a very simple way to show radius.
Take any ski. Place it on edge on a hard surface and pressure it until the complete edge touches this surface. Project this arc in your mind and you will have a giant circle. The radius of this giant circle is the SKI'S RADIUS.

At what edge angle though? On a hard surface if the ski was edged at an angle of 20 degress you would get a larger radius than if it was at 45 degrees. Imagine the radius at 90! The tips would touch the tails! Mind you, you would probably end up with two pairs of very short skis. :cry:

Now I understand your concern and question.
Please confirm if this is your concern.
You want to know what angle to set "perfect" radius of ski. Thus if ski has 13 meters radius it according to you needs an angle X.
If ski has radius of 17 meters, it needs an angle of Y
If ski has radius of 30 meters, it needs an angle of K.


If that is your question then,
sorry but you are confusing concepts.

Take any ski, with any side cut ( radius), to get maximum performance and use effectively the ski you must put it on edge ( so that edge from tip to tail is touching surface). At this point the angle in which you put ski on edge is irrelevant to issue. Just put ski on edge!
You now have ski "on its radius" edge = 13 meters.

Now if you are asking which angle is the most effective, in setting this ski on edge ( ie 13 meters), I would suggest 45 degrees just on pure geometry and physics IN THE LAB.

In real life every skier is different and conditions ( ski surface) vary so in real life this answer would also vary. They key is to set ski on ITS ARC.
The angle used to set this edge is "variable"!!!


Are you confusing tuning edge bevel angle? Another issue!!!!!

There is an excellent ski site that shows the geometry of effective skiing ( in racing context), in which the author draws a series of lines on a ski racer to show the most effective racing technique.
No precise angle is given since body morphologies vary among skiers and as mentioned before ski surface and conditions vary also.

I can send you the pictures via PM of this analysis. I am sure most skiers are not interested in the "micro-analysis" of ski technique.

Hope this clears up the issue.

ellistine wrote:
At what edge angle though? On a hard surface if the ski was edged at an angle of 20 degress you would get a larger radius than if it was at 45 degrees. Imagine the radius at 90! The tips would touch the tails! Mind you, you would probably end up with two pairs of very short skis. :cry:

You've got it. More inclination means tighter turns. You can see this effect on the carpet at home. Put a boot and ski on, outside ski, inside edge to the carpet. Sit on objects of different hieghts so you get different inclinations and press outwards with your boot. You should see the ski flex to form an arc, The lower the object you sit on, the more the ski flexes.

Trencher

Trencher,

Right on !!!

Please confirm if this is your concern.
You want to know what angle to set "perfect" radius of ski. Thus if ski has 13 meters radius it according to you needs an angle

Thankyou all for you info on this. At the moment I feel like a sponge trying to absorb anything and everything. Unfortunately I'm one of those thinker types rather than a 'watch and do' type.

The original question was more to settle a pub debate rather than improve my skiing but all information is valuable.

Thanks again.

Once you have ski "feel" you will note something amazing. I will not tell you since it will "spoil" the surprise.

Damn, two things to search for - ski feel and the meaning of life :lol:

I have a great ski feel for the back of my skis, it's the fronts that I've yet to discover!

You will not find this valuable ski skill defined in a dictionary ellistine.

Here it is!

I warn all skiers, once you have read this, it will change your skiing life.
Some have known to be "addicted" once they have discovered this natural "induced state of pleasure".

If you are not considered "adult" do not continue reading, your parents might complain that you have discovered a natural "high"!

If you have read some of my previous messages, one of the major sins of beginner skiers is LOOKING AT SKIS! Many skiers ski with their eyes, thinking that if they "will" to turn, that is look where they want to go the skis will turn there. They believed the salesperson who told them that the ski they bought had "telepathic qualities"

Sorry, that model will only be available in 2020, when they will insert via nose a "sensory in brain"! Meanwhile we must learn to ski using another sensory input medium.

If ever you have had a foot massage you know how "sensitive" the foot is. For some this part of the body is another "erogenous zone". That is another topic so let me focus on skiing!

Allow me a small diversion to explain why you must focus on the feet.
You create neural pathways when you learn and the brain has to decide what is important and what is not important. In psychological language it has the fancy name of "gestalt". That is was is central to you and what is secondary to you. If you look at picture, what attracts your attention and what is the background.

This also applies to skiing ( which is a learning situation).

You must create the most direct channel to the brain while skiing so that the brain can "process" skiing related information about; where your skis are, where your boots are, where your knees are etc.....You get picture.

The problem is that many skiers have "other" messages going to brain while skiing. Here are some of those "extraneous" messages;
-Oh my god the slope is steep
-Oh I will hurt myself
-Did I pay my insurance
-Got to look good,,got to look good
-Is he watching me......
-hands front, ears tight, nose up, hips turn, pelvis back, toes curled, etc.....
-ice ice ice no no more ice noooooooooo
-great party last night, who was she,,,can I meet her today, there there she is....
-where are the kids, are they okay, Frank Frank the boys..
-Got to watch the hurling bodies,,,ho no here comes one......
-left ski turn with right ski later,,,,no no right ski turn THEN left ski......????
-will I survive,,,,,,oh no not anther turn left. I can't turn left.......


You see the brain is confused with all the many input messages!
It can only process 3 million bits of information per second!

You have to help the brain decide what is important AT THIS TIME while skiing.

This is where ski feel comes in.

Allow me to let you get into my brain and see want is going on while I ski.
You will understand "ski feel".

AT TOP ( from now on these are my cognitive though processes)

Run clear and yes I will take the left side since no one has gone there.

What soft snow. left edge goes in deeper. Softer snow there,

Did you feel that zing after that turn. Great! Lets try it again. Woow...

Look at that great skier in front. Nice technique.

Lets pick up speed to follow her closer.... She has great skis...

Look look to right a mogul. Take it take it. Are the boys around, Is the wife near me??? NO right........ Here it comes!!!!! AIRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!

lets be Seagull,,,,flow easy from edge to edge...........

OPs....did you feel that .....Pav watch your hips,,,, more in more in

Near the end now...watch the kids.....avoid those boarders lying down..

Great run great run.

Again.....



Notice all the technical messages are "unconscious" or automatic. My feet are sending messages DIRECTLY to brain without my approval. My brain is automatically adjusting my body to get most effective skiing.

I am free to focus on the important things in skiing. That is; the wonderful view, the surroundings, the great skiers, the wind in my face, the slope, etc...

The ski feel has direct access to my brain!

If you have problems understanding this, just think of your driving. Do you realize how many things you do actions "automatically" while you THINK consciously of what is ahead, plus your next meeting, plus your dinner date, plus the bills you must pay!!!!

So it is while skiing.


Now you understand while ski feel is important. How do you get it and how do you master it.


In the next series of messages you will learn this "ski feel"

Next year you will ski with your feet rather than you eyes!

Meanwhile, analyze yourself and discover how many things you do "automatically" or unconsciously . Just everyday activities like driving, cooking, dressing, walking, shopping!


Soon you will ski in the same matter.

Soon you will take the time to smell the air while skiing. Feel the texture of the snow. Feel the air as you find another ski dimension just like Icarus!