Is there a RIGHT and LEFT ski

Trencher wrote:

1. This assumes that skiers only use the outside (downhill) ski. Look at nearly any (mid to late turn) photo from the Olympics or world cup GS ski races and the plume of snow coming off the inside ski will tell you how engaged that inside ski is. Maybe beginners shouldn't aspire to this technique.

I could not believe that even at the GS Olympics or World Cup the racers skiers have the skis symmetrical tuned. The forces are different on the edges when you turn so, is less probable to be symmetrically.

cpavel wrote:

Trencher wrote:

1. This assumes that skiers only use the outside (downhill) ski. Look at nearly any (mid to late turn) photo from the Olympics or world cup GS ski races and the plume of snow coming off the inside ski will tell you how engaged that inside ski is. Maybe beginners shouldn't aspire to this technique.

I could not believe that even at the GS Olympics or World Cup the racers skiers have the skis symmetrical tuned. The forces are different on the edges when you turn so, is less probable to be symmetrically.

Well, ofcourse they have thier outside edges blunt. They're saving them for the next Olympics.

Actually, there was a period when asym sidecuts were tried for various reasons. I don't think anyone is doing that anymore.

cpavel, I thought pavelski wanted a discussion, not a flame war. One of the things I really like about pavelski, is his open mind, borne out of long experience.
One day, when you can carve hard, you are going to discover ice(esp in Eastern Canada). If your outside ski looses it's grip and you don't have an equally sharp outside edge on your inside ski (and know how to use it), you may find yourself falling a lot, or not going out on those days.
I never claim to be an expert skier, but do know a little about carving on skis.


Trencher

Haaaa the discussion was informative.

The question was, "is there a right and left ski"?

As mentioned some ( very rare) skis come out of factory LEFT and RIGHT such as the Head World Cup 2008 SL ski. It has some plastic tips which curl inside in order to give the racers that 5 mm. advantage!!!!!

However most skis are same when they come from factory!

My goal in asking this question is to get skiers to understand that they can make the skis even more "personalized" thus more effective! I realize that not all skiers are as "fanatic" as me. I want to "tune" my skis to MY ultimate performance level.

There is that rare pearl of a skier that wants to get more feel from his/her skis, that is the skier I am addressing this question.

All racers modify their skis even if they are the very best that a ski company offers. The students in the tuning course that will get the Rossignol race tune up DVD presented by the Rossi race technician will by amazed on all the " little" modifications made. The answer to the question, YES all racers modify their skis and yes there is a left and right ski ONCE the modifications are made.


As far as other skiers, modifications can be made to make ski faster, more effective and more safe!
There are at least 10 modifications you can make to your ski! Once you make these modifications you have a LEFT and RIGHT ski.

As mentioned previously for the sake of economy you can tune just the inside edge of both skis since you do not get a free skis ever season. 99% of skiers can not use the outside edge while free skiing. Thus this edge does not need the very sharp, very modified tune of the inside edge.

A second modification which renders a ski left and right is the "detuning" of the tips and tails. Traditionally this was done at all times after a tune. There is now a debate on this and an interesting German field test study indicates the "results" of detuning. Without getting technical most skiers will understand that when you have 200 cm and a 165 cm skis and if you detune both with same distance ( 10 cm) the net effect will be greater on the short skis! It is a question of geometry and physics.

Short skis are MORE responsive to any modification ( boot placement, binding placement, canting, boot flex, boot angle platforms, VAS systems, etc..) than longer skis! That is why I suggest to all skiers not to be too radical in beveled edges and modifications.

Let us look at safety and ski modifications. Most skiers do not realize that the most dangerous part of the slope when skiing with modern "shaped" ski is in the flats! Yes the flats!!!

Think about it! In the steeper slopes an effective skier carves his/her turns thus goes from edge to edge. Thus the ski is on the "rail" like a missile guided via laser!

When you are flat, that is on just Ptex base ( with no edging) like when you ski towards ski lift at bottom of ski run the modern ski "wants to get on edge". The sligthest move of the knee or a small hard snow ball ( from grooming) will get ski on edge ( on either edge).

Now imagine catching an outside ski edge on the flats!!!!!

That is why even expert skiers that tune their skis will "detune" the outside tip and tails. Voila,,,, you now have a right and left ski!


We all have different body types and as you get "older" your body becomes modified due to accidents, operations, old age etc... You were born symmetric ( well most of us) and as time passes the left and right sides become "unique"!

In my case I have had 5 operations on right knee, some work on hips and well lets us just say my body is not symmetric! I must adapt my skis to my shortcomings! That is my message to all skiers that have "modified" bodies!
My left side is weaker thus I must allow myself more of a "safety" margin when I set my left ski edge. I modify my left inside ski edge so that I have a "gradual" increasing beveled edge from tip to center. I will start my edge at tip with 1 degree and gradually go to a 3 degree bevel as I go to ski center! Thus my ski edge "forgives" me for not having enough force and control on my left leg and knee!

If you ever see me ski, you will notice if you look carefully that my right turns are more aggressive, sharper, better! In short I cheat ( a little)! The tuning modification helps me in my shortcomings!

That is why skiers ( that rare pearl ) should learn to tune skis! The shop will do a great job of the average skier! If you are not average and you have some "body modifications" you have a valid reason to also adapt your skis!
How many ski shops ask you if you have; weaker knees, broken ankle, artificial hips, ACL operation, etc... before tuning ski?

In conclusion, yes I have a right ski and left ski!

Now ask yourself should I have a right and left ski?

It is your call!

PS

I am now collecting from all serious ski shops all the possible ski modifications so that in 2008 we can share some of these!
See you in 2008!

So if lack of technique is the problem, wouldn't it be better to correct the technique than just cover it up with asymmetric tuning ?

If you want easy straight lining down the hill and to use just one ski to turn, then modern skis seem a bit of a waste. By the way, why are you more likely to catch an outside edge than an inside edge ?

As I said above, I'm not saying there is no benefit for some, but learning to actively use the outside egdes might be better.

but, I guess I'm stuck in the intermediate rut
Trencher

Just an idea from someone who really doesn't have much experience, but anyway. Wouldn't using the outside edge only become a real possibility when using extreme angulation at very high speeds, and on very firm snow. It seems, at my level, the major cause of falls is due to that outside edge getting hung up in soft snow, and taking my weight off of my outside ski.

Either way, it seems unlikely, and extremely difficult, to be able to evenly distribute weight between both skis. Even though I am not sure which way really makes more sense, I am not about to start calling Trencher a "close minded snowboarder" who will only ever achieve "intermediate" skill. If one does a little reading on this forum, I think his knowledge and experience speaks for itself.

Of course, my confidence in Pavelski makes me want to believe he has the most reliable info. :)

That's very perceptive Dshenberger.

The extreme ski carvers do actually rely on that outside edge.You can see in this video that the outside ski is often bouncing around while the inside ski maintains the carve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5sGvthsclw&NR

If you try to (or accidently) pressure that inside ski too early in the turn, befor you are commited to the the turn, it wiil try to take off. I find the key is a very progressive tranfer of weight. I sometimes on a first run of the day, find myself over weighting the inside ski too early esp if I start out on a gentle slope. As you say, lack of speed and inclination.

Pavelski has forgotten more than I'll ever know about skiing. The one thing I have learned about adventure sports in recent years is that conventional wisdom has a date stamp. Just when you think, this is the way it's done, everything changes. In the next several years, most people will learn to carve on skis. That sounds crazy now, but there are places like my my local hill, where it has happened already. The change in the last two seasons is amazing and you can see that people are having much more fun.

Trencher

I've found that my skiing has come on a lot since following the tips in Warren Smith's Ski Academy DVDs - mainly due to increased use of the inside ski.
Add to that the importance of 2 good edges when on ice and I can't see why anyone could seriously propose not sharpening both edges.

As for the comment about the flats - It's true but then I always try to avoid the problem by skiing a shallow carve.

I agree about the usage of both skis. I just don't know what is ideal. to put pressure equally on both or more on one ski(inside/outside). as far as the video that trencher posted I think it is a liitle to extreme. I think that skier puts pressure only on the inside ski and that is way his outside ski is bouncing around and loses its grip. that is only from my point of view.I might be wrong.
and Trencher the one about the skiers saving their edges for the next olympics was really good one