Offpiste skiing

Would completely agree if we are taking about lift accessed skiing. Am just pointing out within 20min of a coffee shop, you can take a lift to serious terrain where you should really be prepared. Zero skinning or mountaineering involved to get you into areas where is outside the remit of pisteurs to assist. Too many people want to delegate their safety to others which as we have recently seen is frequently too late. Some great courses out there for introduction to ski touring, Avalanche awareness etc.

Tony_H wrote:With respect, all that seems way too much for your average holiday skier to think about when venturing off piste

With respect, Tony, anyone venturing off piste should be thinking about this stuff. Even if they think about it and make an informed decision that the risks are so low that they don't need any kit, or (hopefully) that they should at least have the essentials. The "holy trinity" of avi kit, and a half day getting an intro to off-piste, will probably cost you less than your GoPro.

The avalanche doesn't care how average you are; it'll kill you just as dead.

Seriously, have fun but take care...

I don't really do "off-piste" but only because my knees are too old :oops:. The rest of me is much younger than my knees for some strange reason:lol:. However, I will occasionally head into fresh snow on the fringes of the marked piste or take on the odd "ski-route" if conditions seem reasonable. Like most recreational skiers, I do this casually without any avi, shovels, probes or any other avalanche equipment. I suppose I work on the assumption that avalanches won't happen on such slopes. This is probably true in nearly all cases but you only need to be wrong once :!:.

Certainly, if I was thinking about going "properly" off piste, I would only do so with a guide and would expect that they would provide the basic essential equipment, as well as keeping me to areas that are reasonably safe. Venturing out without knowing the area and having proper equipment is bordering on reckless.

I've sort of made a distinction in my head between off-piste and powder skiing.

As far as I can remember the last time I skied what I would class as "off-piste" was in 2012 in L2A with an instructor. This was well away from marked pistes, I had no idea where I was going, wouldn't have had a clue how to get out on my own and relied on the instructor for the route and for avoiding danger. A bit of walking was involved!

I have been lucky enough to ski on fresh powder several times since. On marked pistes before skied out or bashed, on marked pistes denoted as nature rides and from "here to there" between pistes or down the side of marked runs.

I'm not talking about any pedantic definition of off-piste for insurance purposes - that's a different question and my insurance covers all off-piste.

I suppose in my head it is about would I ski this alone or be happy for others to follow me or is this somewhere where I want a real expert with me? I am pretty cautious and do tend to go back to places I know well and am able to avoid known danger points - in Tignes for example. Or the Courchevel Valley, far more likely to hit a bit of technical off-piste here than over in Meribel as I know it better.

Anyway - thinking about whether what I am proposing to do is off-piste or powder works for me to keep me safe! (so far :) )

Having all of the suggested equipment with you is all very well, but how many skiers actually know how to use belays, carabiners, crampons ropes etc, and even more so, could do so in difficult and threatening situations ? This sounds more like really serious kit for really serious wildnerness exploring. Way beyond anything I would think of trying !

I think it may come down to the kind of experience you want out of your ski trip. Is it the "Ranchero experience"? The full on "balls to the wall" ready for anything adventure? Is it ski piste all day , but more look forward to the pizza, beer and Hot tub later?

Probably somewhere in between.

The Best comparison of "off-piste" in my part of the world is back-country. typical quiver consists of touring equipment, Avi gear, first aid stuff and overnight kit. But not typically the glacier/mountaineering gear.

I asked myself, to plan a vacation that used all of Ranchero's stuff, where would I have to go. What would I spend? Heli trip to the Yukon or Alaska came to mind. But If I'm going to spend that kind of money, I can go anywhere, Europe, New Zealand, Argentina....

That made me wonder what you guys in U.K. spend on an average Ski trip. I bet it can be a lot. What do you consider good value for your money?

What I have been able understand from these posts is that it is difficult to get a "powder experience" from the places you tend to go without the effort of hiring a guide and equipment.

The resorts closest to me, within a 5 or 6 hour driving radius from my home Castle Mountain Resort, Fernie, Sunshine, Lake Louise, Kicking Horse, Whitefish and a few more. These areas all have access to back-country (off-piste, the topic of this thread). However the ability to have all the equipment let alone the skill to use the equipment or even to ski the terrain is quite honestly beyond most people.

All of the resorts I listed, all offer "Natural terrain". lots of it! Admin called it "freeride terrain" Let's define natural terrain as challenging areas on a mountain that are never touched by grooming equipment, but exist within an area that is controlled for avalanches, accessible by a lift, and leads back down to the main ski area. You can ski powder all day long without the need for any avi gear whatsoever. In fact, the ski areas listed, the groomed trails may only account for 10% to 40% of the skiable terrain.

So, for me, my vacation is about skiing, eating, friends, beer, lots of runs in challenging natural terrain and a hot tub at the end of the day. A groomed run can be nothing more than a necessary evil to get back to the lift. The best of both worlds I think.

I think in a true Off-piste experience, the journey is the destination.

To put together the question of "what do you typically spend on a ski vacation?" with "What do you really want, off-piste or natural terrain?" If your goal is to get fresh turns in a safe non-groomed (hopefully but not always, powder) environment, isn't more about planning and the destination?

Lift served off-piste doesn't require touring bindings or skins. I won't tour when we have tons of snow nearby, seems like a waste of effort, and when we tour I check the route first to see if crampons are needed to avoid carrying extra weight and bulk. Same with harness and carabiners. It might look cool, but most of the time totally unnecessary. Probably the main reason I prefer Verbier to Chamonix is that there is no need for any "jewelry" to access some great terrain. So, my regular off-piste skiing kit includes an airbag with a standard avy kit, Swiss army knife, sunglasses and an extra layer; works well. My airbag is 18L and for daily skiing it's enough and fits everything I need. When touring I use a 26L backpack and leave airbag at home to save on weight.

Wanderer wrote:I don't really do "off-piste" but only because my knees are too old :oops:. The rest of me is much younger than my knees for some strange reason:lol:. However, I will occasionally head into fresh snow on the fringes of the marked piste or take on the odd "ski-route" if conditions seem reasonable. Like most recreational skiers, I do this casually without any avi, shovels, probes or any other avalanche equipment. I suppose I work on the assumption that avalanches won't happen on such slopes. This is probably true in nearly all cases but you only need to be wrong once :!:.

When skiing itineraries and not carrying any kit it's important to remember that controlled area (resorts often claim they don't control itineraries though at least some control is done) is 30m each side of the markers, when the total area can be much wider, so when you think you are skiing an itinerary in fact you might be off-piste. So pay attention and not just for insurance.
Certainly, if I was thinking about going "properly" off piste, I would only do so with a guide and would expect that they would provide the basic essential equipment, as well as keeping me to areas that are reasonably safe. Venturing out without knowing the area and having proper equipment is bordering on reckless.