Pole position (excuse the pun)

bandit wrote:[
Hmmm, I'd like to think that you don't know me that well, but you are spot on with this observation :D
Which is a little worrying, can I be read that easily? :shock:

not that much of an insight, I have skied with you :D I'd also think anyone that skis more than a couple of times a year, reads a ski forum matches that profile.

Reading this thread really makes my head hurt, So many comments and views on what seems to be such a complex subject.
Maybe ise can explain.

Everywhere i have skied resort or country,i have not been taught to ski the same, Yes the basic fundamentals are the same but the technique has been different.Does this not answer the question as to why there is so much difference of opinion.

QUESTION= is there not one universal method of teaching people to ski, Or will they always be variations.
Comments greatly appreciated

AJ Adele

AJ wrote:Reading this thread really makes my head hurt, So many comments and views on what seems to be such a complex subject.
Maybe ise can explain.

Everywhere i have skied resort or country,i have not been taught to ski the same, Yes the basic fundamentals are the same but the technique has been different.Does this not answer the question as to why there is so much difference of opinion.

QUESTION= is there not one universal method of teaching people to ski, Or will they always be variations.
Comments greatly appreciated

AJ Adele

It's funny but I can't quite understand your question :-) The language we use is so confusing sometimes.

You say technique is different, do you mean the actual ski technique or the instruction technique? I'm guessing the second one. All instructors in every country I can think of take certification which leads to ISTD level, that's an ISIA (google if you're interested) standard and it's there to make sure everything is broadly similar. At the extreme that means you're not going to book an instructor who tells you to keep your skis together on the piste or to lean back in powder. Beyond that each system has similar themes, BASI has something called the "Central Theme" which is a fairly basic set of techniques which should take the skier to advanced intermediate level, PSIA has something similar, the Swiss have an award system that does more or less the same.

How an individual instructor works varies hugely, someone doing beginner group lessons each week is going to follow a lesson plan that's probably 95% based on the what that ski school finds works. Smaller groups and the instructor will start using different exercises that reflect what's worked for them in the past and where the student is struggling. There's also going to be the odd one, like me, who just can't remember all those exercises and can only recall a handful :D Luckily I'm not currently working as a ski instructor though :D

I've a slight problem with a lot of these drills though, somehow the drill becomes more important than the application and you get some people who get really good at the drill and are totally incapable of applying it or can't even understand where they're supposed to apply it. A variation of this is the ability to adopt a series of good postures and stances but not be able to move between them, that's actually pretty funny to watch though :D

What I'm saying is that even if the drills are different the goals should be pretty much the same, if you've got an instructor who's not able to explain the purpose of the drill then you've no context and it's confusing, obviously you need another instructor :D Seriously though, if you have an instructor that isn't explaining it then push him/her to, if they won't then complain.

only thing i can add to such a technical discussion is that my left pole came in very useful when i was sliding down a mountain head first on my back unable to stop -)
caron

Yes i meant instruction technique and the application
of it ise. :lol:
I suppose the only way to keep up with changing technique is to keep having refresher lessons
and by god do i need one.Too many bad habits have crept in over the years. :lol:
I still find pole planting difficult at speed as it tends to upset my flow, dont know if you understand the jist of what i`m trying to say.
I suppose we will always be striving for the ultimate,illusive,In perfection.Thanks for the feedback. :wink:



AJ Adele

AJ wrote:Yes i meant instruction technique and the application
of it ise. :lol:
I suppose the only way to keep up with changing technique is to keep having refresher lessons
and by god do i need one.Too many bad habits have crept in over the years. :lol:
I still find pole planting difficult at speed as it tends to upset my flow, dont know if you understand the jist of what i`m trying to say.
I suppose we will always be striving for the ultimate,illusive,In perfection.Thanks for the feedback. :wink:

AJ Adele

There's no one way of using the poles, I mentioned the 4 ways (above) that BASI think about it in the central theme and that varies as you move down the hill.

I just skied from the top of the mountain on a black piste, steep and wide open on the top, and carving down there at speed I'm using a light touch on the pole and just railing on the edges, towards the bottom it gets much steeper and the snow's problematic so I'm fairly aggressively pole planting doing all of the things I mentioned above, i.e. supporting my balance as I turn with an aggressive edge check, helping me rotate rapidly without having to lean all over the hill and getting the torque to turn rapidly, it's a tighter line and I've got to navigate around the safety nets as well so the turn radius is way smaller. If I'd pole planted like that at the top when I was just railing carved turns down then it would have seriously upset my flow as well. A good run as well, somewhere under 6 minutes from top to bottom :D

ise wrote:

bandit wrote:
Hmmm, I'd like to think that you don't know me that well, but you are spot on with this observation :D
Which is a little worrying, can I be read that easily? :shock:

not that much of an insight, I have skied with you :D I'd also think anyone that skis more than a couple of times a year, reads a ski forum matches that profile.

Yes, you've skied with me, but you're always in front, so unless you have eyes in the back of your head??? Also, since you're not teaching, and have not taught me, you won't know how I learn as a skier. Lots of folks now ski more than a couple of times a year, and read forums for ideas, so I'm not convinced on that.
Anyway, I let you go ahead, so that if I see you make a hash of things, I know it's a tough run. Maybe that's what you are using as an indicator? :D

BTW 6 minutes is pretty good IMV 8) how shiny was the netted "catch" area?

bandit wrote: Yes, you've skied with me, but you're always in front, so unless you have eyes in the back of your head??? Also, since you're not teaching, and have not taught me, you won't know how I learn as a skier. Lots of folks now ski more than a couple of times a year, and read forums for ideas, so I'm not convinced on that.
Anyway, I let you go ahead, so that if I see you make a hash of things, I know it's a tough run. Maybe that's what you are using as an indicator? :D

BTW 6 minutes is pretty good IMV 8) how shiny was the netted "catch" area?

I try to keep and eye on what's going on behind :D I agree though, most people now match that profile, skiing's come a long way from the package tour mentality of the 80's. The wider public has changed as well so people question more as well. It really wasn't any kind of good guess or insight at all :D

6mins.... a piste day, slalom skis with very sharp edges :D It was very icy at the bottom, but those Lasers can hold an edge on glass so it's hardly even noticeable.