Just don't do what I did and forget to do them back up again, especially when you're aleady up a mountain in Tignes. However, I discovered you can use a 5p coin to do them up!
The girlfriend didn't find it as funny that I had remembered to tighten mine and not hers!
The 10 Essential Things you must do this summer!!!!!
Login
To my knowledge, it's not recommended in part because it's not really needed in many cases, some bindings don't actually have the spring under tension when the binding is released. Modern material technology being what it is then I'm less than sure the spring lifetime doesn't far exceed the lifetime of the other components anyway.
As I understand it, litigation concerns from the manufacturers would mean a couple of things, first, that if they recommend releasing the springs there's a risk people don't reset them either correctly or at all in which case there's a potential liability. Second, if the spring fails over time as a result of not having the tension released then they have a further potential liability. It's rather better for them to ship a bind as "no user serviceable parts" and be done with it all, use modern materials or a zero loaded on release spring.
More tellingly, there's no mechanical or physical reason a spring under tension will creep, we're talking about a consistent static load which unless the spring is flawed or unsuitable for application will not impact the spring performance. The mechanics of this is that springs will degrade if pushed beyond their static yield strength or on cyclic loading, neither should be true in a ski binding.
You say it's not in your current binding manual, it would be interesting if it's actually in any binding manual, I'm guessing not but I don't know for sure. Maybe the first ski bindings used general purpose springs which weren't suitable for the application and some failures led to this becoming common practise, I don't know but there's no good mechanical reason for it now as far as i know, it's just "common wisdom" and that's something to always be wary of.
My waterskiing squirrel is better than your waterskiing squirrel. :shock:
I see another "discussion" beginning!
In all North American binding clinics given by companies, they do not recommend that skiers touch bindings, for the very reasons ise mentioned!
Ellistine gives gave a good reason why most skiers should not touch units! The trick Ellistine is to place a tape on bindings with note or just every year check bindings in October!
Sorry Ise but I must disagree with you as far as your statement, "there is no tension when bindings is released"! If you take a binding apart you have a cam system which is calibrated by having a "piston" resting on a cam type mechamism. This piston which exerts pressure on cam IS under tension at all times. When you screw DIN setting what you are doing is screwing IN the spring tighther into the piston thus placing more tension on cam!
Even if bindings are "off" or released the DIN setting spring is under tension!
The spring you are referring to Ise for the release portion of the binding is in all cases under the DIN spring for the rear units. It rides on the base track of the rear units! As far as the front units there is no fore/aft movement!
Here is the issue in a nutshell! If a skier has a binding with a "lower" performance range ie DIN range of 4-8 ( since he/she got them on Ebay ) and the DIN is set at 7.5! Guess what is happening to spring even when static, open and released? It is under tension.
That is why skiers should never buy lower end bindings or "special deal" bindings with lower performance range!
In conclusion. it is up to each skier to decide. I prefer to release and check every Fall all my bindings!
PS
The older bindings never had general purpose springs! Even the Look Nevada's had springs specifically made for Look! They had three types each color coded for the technician!
Now to really start a "discussion",,are you aware of the new Atomic ski which changes its width,,yes width ( ie side cut) as you ski it! Seems there are internal springs which hold ski together!
re-read it, I said some bindings not all, and a quick Google search shows I'm not the first person to point this out to you.
and they're wrong I'm afraid, just repeating an old story.
The first point isn't relevant, elastic isn't metal. The second point is just wrong, forces below the static yield strength will not deform the the spring, that's the point in fact, if the forces exceed static yield strength or there's cyclic loading in which case the spring is unsuitable for the application.
And your third point is right on the money, that's exactly why people mess with their bindings :D
I only just noticed that, that's totally untrue and quite easy to test, any store with the suitable equipment can verify the datum force is still able to open a binding at any given DIN setting. Those of us who have our bindings checked regularly know this, in fact I've computer printouts somewhere of the forces on my bindings over time which remain just the same even though I ski at the higher DIN settings.
Sorry, but the idea that springs degrade when used inside their normal operating ranges is just plain untrue, it's bad mechanics, machines all over the world would be failing all the time if that were true.
Urban myths die hard I'm afraid )
To Create or Answer a Topic
Started by Pavelski in Ski Chatter 15-May-2008 - 119 Replies
Ellistine
reply to 'The 10 Essential Things you must do this summer!!!!!' posted May-2008
Edited 2 times. Last update at 23-May-2008
Ise
reply to 'The 10 Essential Things you must do this summer!!!!!' posted May-2008
bandit wrote:Pav, it's clear that you value winding down binding settings for the reasons you list. You've not addressed my query as I still don't know if the binding manufacturers are recommending it currently.
If the manufacturers are not recommending it being undertaken, if consumers perodically wind the springs down it may invalidate any warranty or litigation claims involving their products.
To my knowledge, it's not recommended in part because it's not really needed in many cases, some bindings don't actually have the spring under tension when the binding is released. Modern material technology being what it is then I'm less than sure the spring lifetime doesn't far exceed the lifetime of the other components anyway.
As I understand it, litigation concerns from the manufacturers would mean a couple of things, first, that if they recommend releasing the springs there's a risk people don't reset them either correctly or at all in which case there's a potential liability. Second, if the spring fails over time as a result of not having the tension released then they have a further potential liability. It's rather better for them to ship a bind as "no user serviceable parts" and be done with it all, use modern materials or a zero loaded on release spring.
More tellingly, there's no mechanical or physical reason a spring under tension will creep, we're talking about a consistent static load which unless the spring is flawed or unsuitable for application will not impact the spring performance. The mechanics of this is that springs will degrade if pushed beyond their static yield strength or on cyclic loading, neither should be true in a ski binding.
You say it's not in your current binding manual, it would be interesting if it's actually in any binding manual, I'm guessing not but I don't know for sure. Maybe the first ski bindings used general purpose springs which weren't suitable for the application and some failures led to this becoming common practise, I don't know but there's no good mechanical reason for it now as far as i know, it's just "common wisdom" and that's something to always be wary of.
Edited 1 time. Last update at 23-May-2008
ZoomZoomZoom
reply to 'The 10 Essential Things you must do this summer!!!!!' posted May-2008
Hirsty wrote:Do I not get a squirrel related bonus prize? :D
My waterskiing squirrel is better than your waterskiing squirrel. :shock:
All Hail The Goose - www.ski-jobs.co.uk
Pavelski
reply to 'The 10 Essential Things you must do this summer!!!!!' posted May-2008
I see another "discussion" beginning!
In all North American binding clinics given by companies, they do not recommend that skiers touch bindings, for the very reasons ise mentioned!
Ellistine gives gave a good reason why most skiers should not touch units! The trick Ellistine is to place a tape on bindings with note or just every year check bindings in October!
Sorry Ise but I must disagree with you as far as your statement, "there is no tension when bindings is released"! If you take a binding apart you have a cam system which is calibrated by having a "piston" resting on a cam type mechamism. This piston which exerts pressure on cam IS under tension at all times. When you screw DIN setting what you are doing is screwing IN the spring tighther into the piston thus placing more tension on cam!
Even if bindings are "off" or released the DIN setting spring is under tension!
The spring you are referring to Ise for the release portion of the binding is in all cases under the DIN spring for the rear units. It rides on the base track of the rear units! As far as the front units there is no fore/aft movement!
Here is the issue in a nutshell! If a skier has a binding with a "lower" performance range ie DIN range of 4-8 ( since he/she got them on Ebay ) and the DIN is set at 7.5! Guess what is happening to spring even when static, open and released? It is under tension.
That is why skiers should never buy lower end bindings or "special deal" bindings with lower performance range!
In conclusion. it is up to each skier to decide. I prefer to release and check every Fall all my bindings!
PS
The older bindings never had general purpose springs! Even the Look Nevada's had springs specifically made for Look! They had three types each color coded for the technician!
Now to really start a "discussion",,are you aware of the new Atomic ski which changes its width,,yes width ( ie side cut) as you ski it! Seems there are internal springs which hold ski together!
Mike from NS
reply to 'The 10 Essential Things you must do this summer!!!!!' posted May-2008
Take a look at this item and especially item #7 under the heading of Binding Maintenance.
http://www.skiseeker.biz/main.cfm?p=4000&l=en&SectionID=2&ContenuID=25
Like they say ...fatigue is the potential problem. Doing some simple maintenance will save $$$.
Springs can be very complicated things and for
some in depth reading on a night when you find the time long or just want to get into deep study of the things, take a look here: http://www.mitcalc.com/doc/sprcompress/help/en/sprcompresstxt.htm
Even an elastic band will loose it's strength over time if under continual tension.
For even more study on the subject look into the molecular metallurgy of the materials than make up springs. If there is a load on the spring the molecular metallurgy of the spring could change over time.
Another reason to drop the DIN is because we can pretend to be a cool ski technician with a screwdriver as a weapon! :lol:
Mike :wink:
http://www.skiseeker.biz/main.cfm?p=4000&l=en&SectionID=2&ContenuID=25
Like they say ...fatigue is the potential problem. Doing some simple maintenance will save $$$.
Springs can be very complicated things and for
some in depth reading on a night when you find the time long or just want to get into deep study of the things, take a look here: http://www.mitcalc.com/doc/sprcompress/help/en/sprcompresstxt.htm
Even an elastic band will loose it's strength over time if under continual tension.
For even more study on the subject look into the molecular metallurgy of the materials than make up springs. If there is a load on the spring the molecular metallurgy of the spring could change over time.
Another reason to drop the DIN is because we can pretend to be a cool ski technician with a screwdriver as a weapon! :lol:
Mike :wink:
Age is but a number.
Ise
reply to 'The 10 Essential Things you must do this summer!!!!!' posted May-2008
pavelski wrote:
Sorry Ise but I must disagree with you as far as your statement, "there is no tension when bindings is released"! If you take a binding apart you have a cam system which is calibrated by having a "piston" resting on a cam type mechamism. This piston which exerts pressure on cam IS under tension at all times. When you screw DIN setting what you are doing is screwing IN the spring tighther into the piston thus placing more tension on cam!
Even if bindings are "off" or released the DIN setting spring is under tension!!
re-read it, I said some bindings not all, and a quick Google search shows I'm not the first person to point this out to you.
Ise
reply to 'The 10 Essential Things you must do this summer!!!!!' posted May-2008
Mike from NS wrote:Take a look at this item and especially item #7 under the heading of Binding Maintenance.
http://www.skiseeker.biz/main.cfm?p=4000&l=en&SectionID=2&ContenuID=25
and they're wrong I'm afraid, just repeating an old story.
Mike from NS wrote:
Even an elastic band will loose it's strength over time if under continual tension.
For even more study on the subject look into the molecular metallurgy of the materials than make up springs. If there is a load on the spring the molecular metallurgy of the spring could change over time.
Another reason to drop the DIN is because we can pretend to be a cool ski technician with a screwdriver as a weapon! :lol:
Mike :wink:
The first point isn't relevant, elastic isn't metal. The second point is just wrong, forces below the static yield strength will not deform the the spring, that's the point in fact, if the forces exceed static yield strength or there's cyclic loading in which case the spring is unsuitable for the application.
And your third point is right on the money, that's exactly why people mess with their bindings :D
Edited 1 time. Last update at 23-May-2008
Ise
reply to 'The 10 Essential Things you must do this summer!!!!!' posted May-2008
pavelski wrote:Here is the issue in a nutshell! If a skier has a binding with a "lower" performance range ie DIN range of 4-8 ( since he/she got them on Ebay ) and the DIN is set at 7.5! Guess what is happening to spring even when static, open and released? It is under tension.
That is why skiers should never buy lower end bindings or "special deal" bindings with lower performance range!
I only just noticed that, that's totally untrue and quite easy to test, any store with the suitable equipment can verify the datum force is still able to open a binding at any given DIN setting. Those of us who have our bindings checked regularly know this, in fact I've computer printouts somewhere of the forces on my bindings over time which remain just the same even though I ski at the higher DIN settings.
Sorry, but the idea that springs degrade when used inside their normal operating ranges is just plain untrue, it's bad mechanics, machines all over the world would be failing all the time if that were true.
Urban myths die hard I'm afraid )
Edited 1 time. Last update at 23-May-2008
Topic last updated on 22-July-2008 at 08:11