Discouraged beginner seeks advice :-)

Hi
There is so much interesting advice on this site, perhaps someone can advise me as a beginner who is having a lot of problems. I have been close to giving up, but do make some progress.

Since I have a girlfriend in Innsbruck, and someone gave me some skis, it made sense to try to learn, though I´m nearly 50. But after 7 sessions (5 this week) lasting 1-3 hours each, progress is very slow.

My skis are probably old fashoned. They are Elan ´Procarve´, a bit narrow compared with modern skis, same height as me (180cm).
Their condition and edges look OK to me.

The problem is simple: under pressure from my girlfriend who has been teaching me (though not a ski teacher), I do overcome fear and attempt turns which seem scary. On very shallow slopes I can even link turns, and sometimes get the skis parallel between turns. Anything steeper and speed is impossible to control. When turning right I can slow down a bit at the end of the turn, digging in with a wedge/snowplough with all my strength (my legs are fairly strong, but not very flexible). When turning left, braking is all but impossible. Dozens of times I have had to fall on purpose to avoid hurtling over the side of the piste or into a tree, though the pistes were not narrow. Sometimes I even try skiing back uphill at the end of the turn to slow down but that does not take off enough speed (I just lose balance). My girlfriend, who can see that the risk of me shooting off the edge of the piste is real, just shouts, ´Snowplough, Snowplough.´ Then when I am lying on the ground, she comes over and says ´It has to work. If you don´t stop it is only because you tell yourself you can´t´. (Maybe she is right: it is true I shout ´I can´t stop!´)

Sometimes I try sideslipping to slow down, but have not acquired the sense of balance for it, and usually twist the skis too far and fall. Sideslipping is also much less effective as way of slowing down when turning left than turning right. Which is odd because I am right handed so the valley ski is on what should be my strongest side.

I know the fact the skis are long may mean it will take me a bit longer to learn than it needs to. I can live with that. But still, progress seems very slow, and incredibly tiring (mentally as much as physically).

Any thoughts would be welcome!

Thanks,

John

PS I might add that relatively easy slopes here have been very busy around New Year, there are many children out, including some very small children, so I have to limit what I try to avoid risk. And almost every day an A&E doctor from Innsbruck is on the TV talking about how the hospital is like a war zone with a drastic increase in skiing accidents - it is not clear why, one doctor referred to increased use of artificial snow. I wonder whether the new budget flights from UK are bringing more inexperienced skiiers.

I feel that your well meaning girlfriend is making it tougher for you to learn to ski. Additionally using unsuitable equipment puts you and other slope users at risk, as you don't have the skills to control them. Not all skis are the same.
For a beginner these skis are too long. This factor alone will stop you getting to grips with the basics.

I belive that you need to do 2 things to get through this sticky patch.
1. Go and rent some modern skis suitable for a novice skier.
2. Go and buy several hours with a private instructor, away from your girlfriend, over several days. Tell them what you have done so far, and they will take you through learning the skills.

Modern skis make it much easier to learn skiing. Give yourself every advantage you can.

Let us know how you get on :D

Deffinately agree with Bandit. Hire some shorter skis. I'm 185cm tall but my skis are only 165cm.

John, whatever you do, don't give up!

Learning to ski is hard work, but the rewards are immense - amongst other things it will give you an incentive to stay fit and active for another 50 years, besides just being fun!

Your skis are making it much too difficult for you, as has been said, and you should consign them to your garage immediately. End of.

Learning to ski is hard work - so make it easier; modern, shorter, easier-to-ski skis will help hugely. Comfortable boots and warm, dry clothing and gloves are all essentials when learning; tick them all off and then you can concentrate on your skiing without distraction. And Bandit's suggestion of 1-on-1 lessons is also essential.

You evidently think you have a strong-side and a weak-side (most of us do). It's important to let an expert assess you and give you appropriate exercises for your individual level of fitness, agility and confidence - so that all those aspects can develop along with your skiing. You will progress faster than you think.

Now the school holidays are over, the slopes should be much less crowded for the next few weeks (until half-term) so get out there (with your easy new hire skis) and get some snow-time. If you're able, take some time during the week when the place is empty.

Find a quiet, easy run with an easy lift and just go round and round - get to know the run, take different routes, play around a bit... breath the mountain air, take in the views, relax a little. It will come to you. 8)

Thanks for the advice. I´m back to London tomorrow but will come to Austria again within a month and try following the advice. As a freelance writer / researcher I am very lucky to be able to travel when I like, but also short of cash at present.

Maybe looking for more suitable skis on ebay makes sense?

Maybe looking for more suitable skis on ebay makes sense?

I wouldn't until you deffinately know what type of skis you're best suited to. Hiring for a day or two will save you in the long run.

Hi John,

Firstly, welcome to the world of skiing, it’s a great pastime and is absolutely achievable.

Possibly more importantly, well done for asking for help rather than giving up! Many people would just quit.

Thinking about the difficulties you describe I am tempted to say that an hour or two with a qualified instructor would probably solve all your issues however perhaps that’s not possible without causing tension between you and your girlfriend …

From your description of the difficulties you are having, it sounds as if you are experiencing one of the most common challenges faced by beginners – A lifetime of living with gravity. That’s not to say that skiers don’t live with gravity but let’s just say that we have learned to interact with it differently.

Let me explain. From the moment we learn to walk we instinctively understand that in order to remain standing upright and still we must make sure that our centre of mass is positioned vertically above the area between our feet. Naturally no one tells us this. I haven’t tried to explain the concept of the centre of mass to a 1yr old but I suspect it would prove quite tiresome to all involved :shock: So through trial and error we discover the truth about our CoM, gravity and our feet. Just to really labour the point, let’s analyse in some detail what happens if you are standing upright and still and then want to take a step forward. Many people, when asked, will say that they put one foot forward and then stand on it, repeating the process with the other foot. Have you ever tried this? If you have a moment, try it. Well? What happened? If you are really good at understanding body management you will discover that actually it’s quite a complex process started by you intentionally trying to fall over. The foot is then brought forward to prevent the fall but the CoM is kept ahead of the feet which leads to the fall continuing but in a managed way.

Ok, I know, brevity is the king of instruction but, I suspect from you post that you are quite likely to learn well through understanding, as opposed to feeling, seeing or just doing.

So what has the physics lesson to do with your skiing? Well, I think you mentioned that you are nearing 50 which means that you’ve spent a fair amount of time getting used to gravity. Now you have to unlearn some of that for a while.

In skiing you need to win a battle against your instinct to stand perpendicular to the effect of gravity. Imagine you are standing on a steep hill in normal shoes. Viewed from the side you would be standing upright i.e. with you CoM above your feet. The angle your body made to the hill behind you would be much smaller that the angle your body made to the hill in front. Now if you were skiing (successfully) down the same hill and had your photo taken from the side you would discover that your body was perpendicular to your skis and therefore perpendicular to the contours of the hill. Now the angle in front and behind would be the same. This is totally at odds with your life experience because in every instance before you started to ski, if you stood in that position and kept both feet still you would very quickly find yourself falling down the hill!

Translating all this good physiology into learning to ski, gives the classic beginner’s posture known around the world as “leaning back”. In fact it is not an active choice to lean back, but rather the body’s attempt to maintain what it has spent so long learning to do i.e. not fall over. Sadly, the terrible truth is that the body is wrong and has to be gently reassured that all is OK. Cue Ski Instructor!

In case it’s all too easy, the problem is compounded for beginners because (quite correctly) beginners learn to ski on slopes that are not too steep which means that the difference in position between the “standing on the hill in shoes” position and the “standing on skis” position is not very great. This lack of difference means that often the “helpful friend” or even dare I say, some Ski Instructors will fail to correct this apparently minor flaw. What happens next is that when the pitch of the slope increases the difference between the requirements of the two postures increases and suddenly the confident beginner is scared witless by a sudden loss of control. Next they very likely actively lean back in an attempt to “get away” from the nasty hill that is scaring them. The result is an even more out of control skier and possibly a “Discouraged beginner seeks advice” post follows shortly :D

Reading your description of the problems you are having it sounds very much like this body position issue is at the root of your troubles. When the CoM is acting behind the foot (you would be described as “leaning back”) it is very much harder to control the ski. The ski works best when the CoM is acting in front of the foot. You will find that the ski edges more accurately and your direction and speed can be controlled with confidence.

So to put this into some form of practical exercise, find a flat piece of ground, stand on your skis in your boots as if you were about to go skiing and try gently leaning forward. Most people, when asked to do this, will keep their bodies straight and will bend only their ankles, which ends up looking a lot like an impression of Eddie the Eagle! By all means try this and notice that (if your bindings don’t release) you don’t fall over. Now to take up a more correct skiing position keep your ankles flexed but allow your knees to close a little and your hips to close a little until you are again upright but sort of hunkered down (technical term!). Notice that you are not leaning forward. The trick is to try and maintain this relationship with your skis when the ground is not level.

Unless you go to extremes you are unlikely to adopt a position that is too far forward so next time you are out on the slopes just do a quick check to see if your body is in open revolt and is trying to take up its normal “in shoes” position. If it is, try thinking about flexing your ankles forward until you regain that position you had on level ground. Once you have felt the big increase in security that comes with an improved position you will be much more able to reassure your body that you can be trusted not to put it in peril and that actually standing up to gravity is just going to make for a lousy time for everyone.

Now as for turning well …

Hmmm maybe not today eh?

Happy standing,

Jan

Two simple things which have already been mentioned: hire shorter, up-to-date skis and get a lesson. Spouses/partners/girlfriends/boyfriends should no more teach each other to ski than to drive a car :wink: