Skiing off piste during lessons.

Brucie wrote:I know my opinions are seen by the majority here as 'old fashioned' but the subject of insurance seems to be becoming obsessional.
If insurance cover issues outweigh the exhilaration of skiing off piste can I suggest that skiing maybe isn't the right sport for you.
There are many 'safer' sports I could suggest.

Kinda agree there. My insurance will get me off the mountain and to a hospital under any circumstances that i currently ski.
It won't buy me a new life, thats on my head.

TheSkiingGolfer wrote:
Hi Snapzzz

i'm heading to La Plagne sunday and have lloked at the Class 3 ESF lessons although based on your description i wonder if it's perhaps beyond me and i should go for Class 2. What's your level of experience?

Ben

I have around 6 weeks skiing spread over 5 years.

From what i have seen here class 2 will have you confidently skiing steep reds by the end of the week with the ability to control your speed on steeper slopes and mastering sideslipping.

Class 3 will assume you are happy on ALL pisted slopes and take you to different snow conditions which generally are off piste.
We were taught powder skiing, jump turns on steeps and dealing with very narrow sections.

Having not skied for a year i went in class 2 on day one just to get my ski legs back. We were made to ski a 300m slope how we normally would and assessed. It was go left for weak class2 and right for strong class 2. I was just told not to come back, move on to level 3 or waste my time and money.

Fully qualified ski instructors are allowed to take clients off-piste for instructional purposes but they are not allowed to take people on glaciers. In order to do so they have to complete a mountain safety course as part of their training that covers:

Snow and avalanche risk assessment
Off-piste skiing technique
Equipment for touring and off piste travel i.e. skinning/snow shoeing
Map reading navigation and route selection
Objective hazards and emergency procedures
Leadership and conduct of a group in descent

There have been off-piste accidents in the past where ski instructors have been found to have been negligent, so in 2012 the Syndicat national des moniteurs du ski français in conjunction with the local judicial authorities produced a DVD detailing their responsibilities regarding off-piste instruction, which was issued to all the ESF instructors. So your man should be fully aware of where he can and cannot safely take you.

Skiing down that couloir (we use the French term http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couloir) accompanied by an instructor will have been a lot safer then skiing down the Swiss wall which is supposed to be one of the most dangerous pistes in the world. The "slab" you mentioned looks like a cornice http://www.fsavalanche.org/encyclopedia/cornice.htm you were right to be wary, but the location didn't look ideal for explaining to someone why the lip of the cornice wasn't going to break off and trigger an avalanche which would sweep you all to your deaths especially when he was giving a group lesson at the same.

Snapzzz wrote:
What he has done is give a class off off piste newbies a sense that areas that 'look' like this are perfectly safe.

All he has actually done is give some newbies some instruction in off-piste skiing technique in terrain that he considered safe on the day, next week he might make a different assessment.

The ESF doesn't have any relevant insurance, it doesn't need any. It is owned the Syndicat national des moniteurs du ski français (SNMSF) one of the French ski instructor's trade associations, it simply takes the bookings and does the paperwork, but the individual ski instructors who are self employed all have liability insurance. Because of the way it's set up it doesn't have to levy VAT or pay corporate taxes which gives it a considerable advantage over the commercial ski schools.

Brucie wrote:I know my opinions are seen by the majority here as 'old fashioned' but the subject of insurance seems to be becoming obsessional.
If insurance cover issues outweigh the exhilaration of skiing off piste can I suggest that skiing maybe isn't the right sport for you.
There are many 'safer' sports I could suggest.

You might have been referring to my comment when you wrote the above.

I wasn't saying don't risk getting a ski off the side of the piste in case you aren't insured and being old fashioned myself I happen to agree with your point.
I was just musing over the insurance companies attempts at getting out of paying.
I just wouldn't have the dosh if I wasn't insured and they refused to pay.
That's all really.

SwingBeep wrote:
All he has actually done is give some newbies some instruction in off-piste skiing technique in terrain that he considered safe on the day, next week he might make a different assessment.

Thats one way of looking at it. however explaining the dangers under different conditions would have been wise. I was certainly tempted to return alone for another go the next day but decided against it as i am careful. Others may just have gone for it.